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DML Brummbär with Zimmerit
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 06:58 AM UTC
Dragon Models Limited has followed up its earlier Mid-Production 1/35 scale kit of the Brummbär with another kit of the same vehicle this time featuring a coating of Zimmerit.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Emeritus
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 10:21 AM UTC
Not wanting to start an argument over the ideal track types, but still...
DS tracks... Did they really have to go and read Cookie Sewell's numerous reviews putting magic tracks in the "disadvantages" section...
DS tracks... Did they really have to go and read Cookie Sewell's numerous reviews putting magic tracks in the "disadvantages" section...
spladapuss
Joined: December 08, 2007
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 6 posts
Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 10:55 AM UTC
I agree, Eetu. While I am sure many of us consider a mid-production Brummbär with zimmerit very welcome, I take issue with Dragon's exclusion of individual track links, alternatively providing DS tracks. In all fairness, I appreciate those modelers who, frustrated by the often inescapable joylessness associated with individual track links, hold unreasonable that such great effort is required to assemble them. Dragon, however, has incrementally excluded details such as generous photo-etched sheets, individual track links, metal barrels, and plenty of goodies for the spare parts box, all the while omitting this reduction in value from the cost of their kits.
One example is Dragon's recent decision to exclude individual photo-etched tool brackets in favor of brackets molded directly on both the tools and the fenders of their kits. Who knows—maybe in a few years, Dragon will peddle for their "ease of assembly" tools, tarps, and bedrolls molded directly on the fenders of a kit, circa 1979. Sadly, I would be fine with that, were Dragon to acknowledge that their kits no longer represent an alternative to the purchase of aftermarket parts, and accordingly adjust their prices. Though Dragon has made great strides as regards the overall quality and accuracy of their kits, between cost, swipes at Terry Ashley, and tit for tat with Trumpeter, Tristar, and Tasca, I am not really feeling the love...
...guess I will be sleeping with AFV Club from now on.
One example is Dragon's recent decision to exclude individual photo-etched tool brackets in favor of brackets molded directly on both the tools and the fenders of their kits. Who knows—maybe in a few years, Dragon will peddle for their "ease of assembly" tools, tarps, and bedrolls molded directly on the fenders of a kit, circa 1979. Sadly, I would be fine with that, were Dragon to acknowledge that their kits no longer represent an alternative to the purchase of aftermarket parts, and accordingly adjust their prices. Though Dragon has made great strides as regards the overall quality and accuracy of their kits, between cost, swipes at Terry Ashley, and tit for tat with Trumpeter, Tristar, and Tasca, I am not really feeling the love...
...guess I will be sleeping with AFV Club from now on.
pzcreations
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
Armorama: 1,116 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 03:12 AM UTC
AFV Club makes a Brummbar with zimmerit?
Removed by original poster on 09/05/09 - 18:58:01 (GMT).
spladapuss
Joined: December 08, 2007
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 6 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 07:58 AM UTC
Wish it were so, Tim, wish it were so...
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 01:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I agree, Eetu. While I am sure many of us consider a mid-production Brummbär with zimmerit very welcome, I take issue with Dragon's exclusion of individual track links, alternatively providing DS tracks. In all fairness, I appreciate those modelers who, frustrated by the often inescapable joylessness associated with individual track links, hold unreasonable that such great effort is required to assemble them. Dragon, however, has incrementally excluded details such as generous photo-etched sheets, individual track links, metal barrels, and plenty of goodies for the spare parts box, all the while omitting this reduction in value from the cost of their kits.
One example is Dragon's recent decision to exclude individual photo-etched tool brackets in favor of brackets molded directly on both the tools and the fenders of their kits. Who knows—maybe in a few years, Dragon will peddle for their "ease of assembly" tools, tarps, and bedrolls molded directly on the fenders of a kit, circa 1979. Sadly, I would be fine with that, were Dragon to acknowledge that their kits no longer represent an alternative to the purchase of aftermarket parts, and accordingly adjust their prices. Though Dragon has made great strides as regards the overall quality and accuracy of their kits, between cost, swipes at Terry Ashley, and tit for tat with Trumpeter, Tristar, and Tasca, I am not really feeling the love...
...guess I will be sleeping with AFV Club from now on.
Totaly agree with you John! Dragon seem to be cutting costs wherever possible yet the price of their kits continue to increase. Sadly Dragon seem to now just exclusively produce 'smart kits' which as you point out lack many of the goodies seen in previous kits, clearly its cheaper to produce these kits, but why arent prices going down?
Equally this 'committed to the modeler' campaign is the biggest load of crap ive ever seen. Committed to the WW2 German modeler, yes, but anyone else no. The ad blurb said these coming announcements are sure to get people talking, well so far I see nothing particularly interesting with this release, and judging by the few comments to this news story many others dont either. I know, I know its the same old argument about German armor etc etc, but one only has to check the forums on here to see the amount of interest surrounding Trumpeter at the moment and their modern releases, so its crap to say such things are a niche market. In my view if 'lizard' are really committed to modelers why dont they show us some variety.
ViperAtl
Joined: August 22, 2005
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 191 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 10:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Not wanting to start an argument over the ideal track types, but still...
DS tracks... Did they really have to go and read Cookie Sewell's numerous reviews putting magic tracks in the "disadvantages" section...
I guess Dragon only recognizes Cookie Sewell as the only armor builder in the whole world.
Guess what, I'll pass on this kit because of the tracks.
Make a point people, if you don't like DS Tracks then don't buy this or any other kit with them and write to DML and tell them you don't like them. Customer feedback is effective when you write in and express how you will spend your money.
muchachos
Joined: May 21, 2008
KitMaker: 537 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 01:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNot wanting to start an argument over the ideal track types, but still...
DS tracks... Did they really have to go and read Cookie Sewell's numerous reviews putting magic tracks in the "disadvantages" section...
I guess Dragon only recognizes Cookie Sewell as the only armor builder in the whole world.
Guess what, I'll pass on this kit because of the tracks.
Make a point people, if you don't like DS Tracks then don't buy this or any other kit with them and write to DML and tell them you don't like them. Customer feedback is effective when you write in and express how you will spend your money.
Don't worry, guys - they'll soon reinstate them with the indy link tracks after Cookie Sewell says that DS tracks are "not preffered by some modelers." (rolls eyes)
lespauljames
Joined: January 06, 2007
KitMaker: 3,661 posts
Armorama: 2,764 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 12:02 PM UTC
i have sent off a messgage to them,
quite dissapointing really.
quite dissapointing really.
ViperAtl
Joined: August 22, 2005
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 191 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 03:45 PM UTC
Interestingly I was at the LHS again today and noticed something. This store will post new releases and the customers will mark down their name and quantity of the kit(s) for purchase. The sheet for this kit has now been out for about a month now and nobody has signed up for it and this was after an AMPS meeting too. Hmmmm...
Even the aircraft guys have it figured out, it's the Dragon Styrene Tracks that people don't want.
The sheet for the new Bronco Models track links was out today and I signed up for 5 sets of Abrams tracks. Price is good too, $17.98 USD.
Even the aircraft guys have it figured out, it's the Dragon Styrene Tracks that people don't want.
The sheet for the new Bronco Models track links was out today and I signed up for 5 sets of Abrams tracks. Price is good too, $17.98 USD.
MKessler
Joined: February 28, 2008
KitMaker: 51 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 05:17 AM UTC
Where can you find the email address for Dragon? I'd love to send them an email about the DS tracks. Thank goodness the T-34's all have individual link. I'm still frustrated that they dropped them from the Tiger kits.
Matt K.
Matt K.
Asmenoth
Joined: April 05, 2005
KitMaker: 274 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 06:31 AM UTC
Not to justify the DS tracks, but are any of the other Magic Tracks sets for the Pz IV solid guide horns, or are they all hollow? Seeing as this tank has the solid guide horns maybe they figure it would be cheaper to do a run in DS plastic than make a new tool for the Magic Tracks molding machine for one kit (even though we could use the solid guide horn track on other kits.)
metooshelah
#011
Joined: February 06, 2009
KitMaker: 1,507 posts
Armorama: 1,304 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 07:02 AM UTC
I have nothing against DS tracks. They are of good quality and the details of them are far superior to usual vinyl tracks. However, after using them for the first time, and comparing the result I get on my models from DS and vinyl with individual / link and length, I do prefer the individual to them. Their build, sometime cumbersome, will give a better result (to my taste, anyway) and they make the painting and weathering process easier, not to say that they look more realistic. For that reason I have started to check my kits for individual links and if the kit doesn't offer these I'll get them from AM manufacturer.
I guess that in the end, it all comes to personal preferences, but I would like to see more kits that includes both types of tracks - to the benefit of all. Such is the Tamiya Matilda kit (a very nice kit in itself): It includes both vinyl and link and length.
I guess that in the end, it all comes to personal preferences, but I would like to see more kits that includes both types of tracks - to the benefit of all. Such is the Tamiya Matilda kit (a very nice kit in itself): It includes both vinyl and link and length.
russamotto
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,389 posts
Armorama: 2,054 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 07:10 AM UTC
Just wait for the "committed o the modeler campaign 5". Cyberhobby will do an orange box release of this kit with the magic tracks and a marginally related Gen 1 figure set. Or a white box experimental paper panzer variant. Should be out in about 6 or 7 months.
bizzychicken
Joined: September 06, 2008
KitMaker: 967 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:20 AM UTC
Totally agree. Dragon has NAILED the Zim, every new Zim kit gets better and better, and I was one that slated the early Zim kits. I'm eating my words now! The Zim pattern looks TOP NOTCH. Again shame about the DS. To Answer one Question Dragon does PZ IV "Indy Solid Guide Horn Tracks". WHY cant we have both, just like Trump and Tam( THE DOUBLE T's) Surely for £50 its not much to ask for? Back to the Zim........ NICE ONE DRAGON........ Awesome, these Zim patterns are really getting better and better. PLEASE GIVE US BACK OUR MAGIC TRACKS! Cheers Geraint 
casailor
Joined: June 22, 2007
KitMaker: 165 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
KitMaker: 165 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 11:28 AM UTC
I think the ideal solution would be for Dragon to issue both ds and lenght and link tracks. They combine the good appearancemof individual links with ease of ds. On American armor with tight tracks ds tracks are perfectly acceptable.
bizzychicken
Joined: September 06, 2008
KitMaker: 967 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 11:51 AM UTC
Yes there is a place for DS tracks, any thing without track sag, great. They just don't cut it with tanks with sag. Yes they have good detail, but they are still RUBBER BANDS, This in the GOLDEN AGE............... COME ON GIVE US BACK ARE MAGIC TRACKS Campaign! 
Metal_blast
Joined: January 31, 2008
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 12:24 PM UTC
Uh.......... I don't get why people hate "magic" tracks. I'll be posting pictures of my second completed tank soon, and being my second tank......indy tracks were great! I don't get why they are HARD to work with? They're really EASY actually. You must have butter fingers or something?
ViperAtl
Joined: August 22, 2005
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 191 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 05:50 PM UTC
Thanks guys for hanging in there for Magic Tracks!
Dragon does such a nice job on the Magic Tracks and should put them in kits that have "dead" tracks and the DS tracks for "live" tracks (no sag). But better yet would be both types in the box when it's a benefit to the kit.
One of these days I'll get to a project with Magic Tracks but in the meantime I will try to get to my Tiger and Panther, now located behind a mountain of bamboo flooring, and shoot some better pictures to post.
As far as I know Dragon doesn't have a direct email address so sending a letter to the corporate headquarters is the best way to contact them. And selective purchases will also get their attention.
Dragon does such a nice job on the Magic Tracks and should put them in kits that have "dead" tracks and the DS tracks for "live" tracks (no sag). But better yet would be both types in the box when it's a benefit to the kit.
One of these days I'll get to a project with Magic Tracks but in the meantime I will try to get to my Tiger and Panther, now located behind a mountain of bamboo flooring, and shoot some better pictures to post.
As far as I know Dragon doesn't have a direct email address so sending a letter to the corporate headquarters is the best way to contact them. And selective purchases will also get their attention.
badger66
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 03:18 AM UTC
The Non Zim version has Magic tracks.
Metal_blast
Joined: January 31, 2008
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 09:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As far as I know Dragon doesn't have a direct email address so sending a letter to the corporate headquarters is the best way to contact them. And selective purchases will also get their attention.
Hey,
I've been thorougly put-off from buying some of their new releases with DS tracks. It looks nice on the Sherman tanks that have no sag, but since German tanks did have live-tracks, it's kind of disappointing as I'd probably have to buy aftermarket tracks which are expensive. As you said, they should include both options; now that'd be great.
Hinksy
Joined: September 06, 2009
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 12:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks guys for hanging in there for Magic Tracks!
Dragon does such a nice job on the Magic Tracks and should put them in kits that have "dead" tracks and the DS tracks for "live" tracks (no sag). But better yet would be both types in the box when it's a benefit to the kit.
One of these days I'll get to a project with Magic Tracks but in the meantime I will try to get to my Tiger and Panther, now located behind a mountain of bamboo flooring, and shoot some better pictures to post.
As far as I know Dragon doesn't have a direct email address so sending a letter to the corporate headquarters is the best way to contact them. And selective purchases will also get their attention.
I agree totally!
I've just bought the Dragon Hybrid Firefly and that had the DS tracks! PERFECT as obviously you want nice tight 'live' tracks on a Sherman chassis. At the same time, what bloody good are they on a Brummbar?
Surely it must be obvious? I don't understand why Cookie puts Magic Tracks down as a disadvantage?
ATVB
Ben
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