| Subject: Trumpeter E-50 and E-75 Annpunced |
 | GaryGore | Location: Ontario, Canada Member Since: November 05, 2006
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| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 11:53 AM UTC |
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Just read on Missing Lynx that at the Tokyo Show they may have announced plastic E-50 and E-75.
No pictures yet that I can find. But the blogger on the DML forums seems to have said the same thing as well. |
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 | John Osselaer John_O | Location: Oost-Vlaaderen, Belgium Member Since: November 23, 2007
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| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 08:50 PM UTC |
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This really made my day. I'm sooooo looking forward to these!!! John |
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 | Matt Flegal ninjrk | Location: Alabama, United States Member Since: January 26, 2006
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| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 02:38 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
This really made my day. I'm sooooo looking forward to these!!!
John
If they follow Jentz and Bruce Crosby's research I will be thrilled. It will be interesting to see if they just copy the Cromwell kits or actually new tool them up. It won't happen but nothing would make my day more than if they paid Jentz a consulting fee to actually research the thing beyond what's already made it into Panzer Tracts. At the least, I hope they read through Crosby's stuff on the net. Matt |
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 | Firecaptain | Location: Virginia, United States Member Since: November 03, 2006
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| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 09:31 AM UTC |
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Anyone have pics handy? |
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 | JDM Berlin45 | Location: Washington, United States Member Since: June 25, 2009
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| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 10:30 AM UTC |
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Just the bare blog posts so far that I can see...
More wishes- E-100 Flakzwilling (good one for Trumpeter) (decent/modern) Ardelt Waffentrager General 38(d) chassis
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 | John Osselaer John_O | Location: Oost-Vlaaderen, Belgium Member Since: November 23, 2007
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| Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 06:14 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Just the bare blog posts so far that I can see...
More wishes- E-100 Flakzwilling (good one for Trumpeter)
--> Well, let one of the brands start with a correct E-100. I spent months correcting the Dragon one to match the Panzer Tracts drawings. The Flakzwilling is pure fiction as far as I know. More interesting would be the Stug version. Actually most of these things are available, but in resin from specialist companies such as New Connection and CMD. And my problem is that it is out of my budget range (well, at least for a single model that is). I recently started writing down a whole bunch of paper and project panzers. For the Panther alone there must be at least 15 projects, then you have the 38T and the 38D which also carry numerous projects. What strikes me is that I don't know of many if any projects based on the King Tiger chassis... J |
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 | Kimmo Rajala casualmodeler | Location: Hame, Finland Member Since: February 04, 2009
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| Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 06:23 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Just read on Missing Lynx that at the Tokyo Show they may have announced plastic E-50 and E-75.
No pictures yet that I can find. But the blogger on the DML forums seems to have said the same thing as well.
Oh boy, oh boy!!!!!............  ..... droooooliiiiiiiiiiinng... |
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 | Kimmo Rajala casualmodeler | Location: Hame, Finland Member Since: February 04, 2009
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| Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 06:27 AM UTC |
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Found these pics, don´t know how hypothetic they are, as both tanks were too: E-50 E-75 I´ll think my stash will grow even bigger in future. |
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 | JDM Berlin45 | Location: Washington, United States Member Since: June 25, 2009
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| Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 11:27 AM UTC |
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____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
--> Well, let one of the brands start with a correct E-100. I spent months correcting the Dragon one to match the Panzer Tracts drawings. The Flakzwilling is pure fiction as far as I know. And my problem is that it is out of my budget range (well, at least for a single model that is). ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think that's why I'd like Trumpeter do a Flakzwilling (etc) in plastic, so it would be more affordable. Especially the 50 and 75... just wonder how they'll render the mysterious Belleville washer suspension... Cromwell's solution was pretty cool...
As for accuracy, that's why I like the Panther II, the E-Series, and the 38(d)... they leave a lot more room for 'what-if' creativity. Personally, I wouldn't spend much time making an 'accurate' E-100 or Panther II; what survived were prototype experiments and I'm sure far from what a 'production' version might've been.
Heh- as you can tell, I'm not much for rivet counting. |
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 | UncaBret UncaBret |  | Location: Illinois, United States Member Since: May 11, 2008
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| Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 02:49 PM UTC |
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Rivet counting on models of hypothetical vehicles seems somehow ridiculous. |
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 | tat baqui tatbaqui | Location: Luzon, Philippines Member Since: May 06, 2007
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| Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 04:00 PM UTC |
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It surely is welcome news to have the E50/E75 available in plastic, definitely much cheaper than their resin counteparts. It would open opportunities as a plaftorm for other what-if projects. Am curious as to how Trumpeter will come up with the hull arrangement as all the pics available (what I have seen so far) are H.L. Doyle's side-view drawings On that note the E50/E75 drawings referred by the link above would be off from what''s been on available literature. IIRC the designs (as drawn by H.L. Doyle) had both front and rear drives. Panzer Tracts though states that the choice was a rear drive. Anyways the good news is that it will be available soon. Hope they come up with the Lowe as well. Cheers |
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 | Steve Riley Kuno-Von-Dodenburg |  | Location: Baden-Württemberg, Germany Member Since: February 20, 2007
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| Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 10:11 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Rivet counting on models of hypothetical vehicles seems somehow ridiculous.
I have to concur. - Steve |
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 | Brett Elphick elph | Location: Seoul, Korea / 대한민국 Member Since: November 13, 2005
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 01:31 AM UTC |
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Rivet counting on models of hypothetical vehicles seems somehow ridiculous.
I agree too. Why people get excited about tanks that would have killed more allies is beyond me. |
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 | Matt Flegal ninjrk | Location: Alabama, United States Member Since: January 26, 2006
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 02:27 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Rivet counting on models of hypothetical vehicles seems somehow ridiculous.
I agree too. Why people get excited about tanks that would have killed more allies is beyond me.
For the same reason that I would dearly love a plastic T29 or Black Prince; what-is and never were's are fascinating regardless of the flag. Matt |
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 | Matt Flegal ninjrk | Location: Alabama, United States Member Since: January 26, 2006
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 02:30 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
It surely is welcome news to have the E50/E75 available in plastic, definitely much cheaper than their resin counteparts. It would open opportunities as a plaftorm for other what-if projects. Am curious as to how Trumpeter will come up with the hull arrangement as all the pics available (what I have seen so far) are H.L. Doyle's side-view drawings
On that note the E50/E75 drawings referred by the link above would be off from what''s been on available literature. IIRC the designs (as drawn by H.L. Doyle) had both front and rear drives. Panzer Tracts though states that the choice was a rear drive.
Anyways the good news is that it will be available soon. Hope they come up with the Lowe as well.
Cheers
My guess is they'll take Bruce Crosby's masters and duplicate them. Whether they will do the research to find out that Cromwell modified the tracks from what his research found is TBD. C'mon, they flat out stole (although settled later) the hypothetical E-100 turret for their model, anyone believe this will be different? I hope it is, I'd love for them to actually commission Jentz and Crosby to truly research the tank and make a definitive model. Matt |
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 | GaryGore | Location: Ontario, Canada Member Since: November 05, 2006
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 05:49 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Just read on Missing Lynx that at the Tokyo Show they may have announced plastic E-50 and E-75.
No pictures yet that I can find. But the blogger on the DML forums seems to have said the same thing as well.
Here is the on paper shot of there releases. March 2010 so far, http://2nd.geocities.jp/massgtgun/_gl_images_/PA091016.JPG From what I see, they have the turret wrong on the E-50 and I thought the turret for the E-75 was the same as the E-50, not an Tiger B one with the longer 88mm L/100. The turret from the E-75 could make for an interesting upgrade to a Tiger B, now only if they get the turret right, it could also make for an excellent July 45 Tiger B Upgrade basis as well. The turret for the E-50 I believe should have the 88mm as shown in book "Germany's Panther Tank", so I guess I continue with my resin / plastic edition of it. |
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 | Matt Flegal ninjrk | Location: Alabama, United States Member Since: January 26, 2006
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 06:14 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Just read on Missing Lynx that at the Tokyo Show they may have announced plastic E-50 and E-75.
No pictures yet that I can find. But the blogger on the DML forums seems to have said the same thing as well.
Here is the on paper shot of there releases. March 2010 so far,
http://2nd.geocities.jp/massgtgun/_gl_images_/PA091016.JPG
From what I see, they have the turret wrong on the E-50 and I thought the turret for the E-75 was the same as the E-50, not an Tiger B one with the longer 88mm L/100.
The turret from the E-75 could make for an interesting upgrade to a Tiger B, now only if they get the turret right, it could also make for an excellent July 45 Tiger B Upgrade basis as well.
The turret for the E-50 I believe should have the 88mm as shown in book "Germany's Panther Tank", so I guess I continue with my resin / plastic edition of it.
Assuming that those are actually how the models will look then yep, I think they're basing it entirely off of Bruce Crosby's masters, or rather the Cromwell versions of them. There is no evidence that the KT turret was ever planned to be fitted, it was the same turret for both. I really hope that these are placeholders but am not expecting it. Matt |
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 | John Osselaer John_O | Location: Oost-Vlaaderen, Belgium Member Since: November 23, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 06:55 AM UTC |
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I agree too. Why people get excited about tanks that would have killed more allies is beyond me.
Ermmm? (erases long rant) I'll just bite my lip on this one. What a ridiculous and shortsighted remark. |
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 | Scott muchachos |  | Location: Ontario, Canada Member Since: May 21, 2008
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 11:40 AM UTC |
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Why people get excited about tanks that would have killed more allies is beyond me.
You have some excellent work on this site. One that I remember clearly is a superb whitewashed Tiger I. When you were building this, were you thinking about the Allied troops this vehicle may have killed? No, you weren't - it's a non political hobby. Your statement, honestly, seems as if you are not a modeler, but one of those non-modelers who says "Why Nazi tanks?" SCOTT |
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 | russ amott russamotto |  | Location: Utah, United States Member Since: December 14, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 05:59 PM UTC |
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I was just at the E-10 and E-25 kits today and now I see this. I wonder how far they will take this idea? Maybe one day they will come out with the Schwarzwolf, the paper panzer that never even made it to paper. |
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 | JDM Berlin45 | Location: Washington, United States Member Since: June 25, 2009
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 07:01 PM UTC |
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Here is the on paper shot of there releases. March 2010 so far,
http://2nd.geocities.jp/massgtgun/_gl_images_/PA091016.JPG
From what I see, they have the turret wrong on the E-50 and I thought the turret for the E-75 was the same as the E-50, not an Tiger B one with the longer 88mm L/100.
The turret from the E-75 could make for an interesting upgrade to a Tiger B, now only if they get the turret right, it could also make for an excellent July 45 Tiger B Upgrade basis as well.
The turret for the E-50 I believe should have the 88mm as shown in book "Germany's Panther Tank", so I guess I continue with my resin / plastic edition of it.
Awesome- thanks for the link! Also, I haven't seen that Tiger B turret concept, either... looks like Trumpeter is taking the 'muscular' route! ps... that E-75 was inspired by the Popy Panzer Projekts gashpon. http://www.mikes-tanks.com/images/RProjPanther01a.jpg |
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 | Soeren Gorizont | Location: Sachsen, Germany Member Since: November 28, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 07:08 PM UTC |
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Thanks for the link with the paper-shot! Are there some more like this from Trumpeter and other companies?
greetings... Soeren |
in progress:
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planned:
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 | GaryGore | Location: Ontario, Canada Member Since: November 05, 2006
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 02:36 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Here is the on paper shot of there releases. March 2010 so far,
http://2nd.geocities.jp/massgtgun/_gl_images_/PA091016.JPG
From what I see, they have the turret wrong on the E-50 and I thought the turret for the E-75 was the same as the E-50, not an Tiger B one with the longer 88mm L/100.
The turret from the E-75 could make for an interesting upgrade to a Tiger B, now only if they get the turret right, it could also make for an excellent July 45 Tiger B Upgrade basis as well.
The turret for the E-50 I believe should have the 88mm as shown in book "Germany's Panther Tank", so I guess I continue with my resin / plastic edition of it.
Awesome- thanks for the link!
Also, I haven't seen that Tiger B turret concept, either... looks like Trumpeter is taking the 'muscular' route!
ps... that E-75 was inspired by the Popy Panzer Projekts gashpon.
http://www.mikes-tanks.com/images/RProjPanther01a.jpg
I think the 2 different turrets are purely a marketing thing. If you announce the E-50 and E-75 as seperate kits, you kind of need to make them different, but from the research the E-50 and E-75 are of the same design, just different armor thickness is all, so how do you model that? The next best thing is to use the same hull for both and use different turrets. I kind of like the E-75 turret as it does have some other useful uses outside of the E-75. |
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 | John Osselaer John_O | Location: Oost-Vlaaderen, Belgium Member Since: November 23, 2007
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 05:32 AM UTC |
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I think the 2 different turrets are purely a marketing thing. If you announce the E-50 and E-75 as seperate kits, you kind of need to make them different, but from the research the E-50 and E-75 are of the same design, just different armor thickness is all, so how do you model that? The next best thing is to use the same hull for both and use different turrets.
--> Yep, marketingwise it makes the kits more attractive on their own, but on the otherhand it is not the first time I see the evolved KT turret on the E-75 chassis. There seem to be two lines of thought on this and some authors persistently portray the E-75 with the evolved KT turret. A couple of months ago there was a Panzerwaffe '46 issue of Trucks an Tanks magazine (TNT), a French publication and that presented the E-50 and E-75 just like Trumpeter does. Quoted Text
I kind of like the E-75 turret as it does have some other useful uses outside of the E-75.
---> Yes, KT 1945... And I might be retarded enough to buy an additional one of these just for the engine deck and use it for yet another E-100, but this time with the evolved engine deck. And yes, I do need professional help. John (prototype/paper panzer/whatif addict, but purely from a technical point of view, without wanting to hurt someone) |
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 | John Osselaer John_O | Location: Oost-Vlaaderen, Belgium Member Since: November 23, 2007
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 05:46 AM UTC |
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BTW, that 88mm L100, how the h*** were they going to stabilize that thing let alone try to cut a corner when passing through a town or city? Just seems a megalomanic, but highly impractical weapon....
And in the same line of thought, an 88mm in a Panther Schmallturm would have had more disadvantages than advantages...
But still fun though these whatifs.
John |
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 | Geraint Lewis bizzychicken | Location: Wales, United Kingdom Member Since: September 06, 2008
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| Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 07:04 AM UTC |
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Just caught up with this chat, thanks John. If the E 50 and 75 had the same turret, then great marketing for Trumps! The late KT turret on the E 75 will find another home. Hope they got the KT turret right? The hull on the E 50 looks great. The 1st i've seen in plastic, awesome! Got to get me one of these. Where is going to stop! Who cares? Would be great if Mr Jentz was asked to get involved with some of these "Paper Panzers" It would make our lives easier, but then what would we have to talk about, find friends, delve into are research material, talk some more, find more like minded friends, etc etc. Just a thought? No it would be great if some of the Guys at the top of our game, be involved in the " What Ifs". would be nice to buy some SPOT ON'S in plastic. |
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 | Herbert Ackermans H_Ackermans |  | Location: Gelderland, Netherlands Member Since: July 11, 2006
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| Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 04:45 PM UTC |
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The 88mm KwK 43 L/71 Schmalturm had been mocked up in wood at Daimler Benz, proving that handling the long ammo was cumbersome. Purely my own idea, but adding a rear turret extension like on the Tiger-B turret would provide some extra stowage space. As to the hulls, well, those seem to match the HL-Doyle drawings. One could even get some variations on the E-75 as the running gear layout could differ depending on which company was involded, Weserhütte or Adler and the latter also had different approaches. An E-75 with 6 roadwheels was an option. The E-75 turret shown on the Trumpeter board does match the July '45 Tiger-B drawings in the VK-4502 book by Jentz, so that would be a nice addition to the Tiger-B variations collection  But having not yet read Jentz' Paper-Panzers PT-volumes, I don't know exactly what new info he has, I do have the Spezial Panzer book by Spielberger. I do get the idea that Trumpeter just took the E-series into plastic for that, to have them in plastic and cut off the expensive resin offerings. Their E-100 is quite laughable and copying a turret design directly from someone else without crediting, that's quite bad behaviour, worse than anyone can acuse DML of doing |
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 | Doug Dropeskey Damraska |  | Location: California, United States Member Since: October 06, 2006
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| Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:26 PM UTC |
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Their E-100 is quite laughable and copying a turret design directly from someone else without crediting, that's quite bad behaviour, worse than anyone can acuse DML of doing
Mike Rinaldi and Trumpeter came to an amicable agreement over that issue within a couple weeks of the initial announcement: http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/thread/1195330528/Trumpeter%27s+E100+Ausf.+B+issue+resolved%21-Doug |
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 | Herbert Ackermans H_Ackermans |  | Location: Gelderland, Netherlands Member Since: July 11, 2006
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| Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:39 PM UTC |
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I know that, but it still doesn't change a thing about what Trumpeter did in the first place. I merely meant, that seeing that and the way DML gets criticised over minor detail faults, something isn't quite right and would be more akin to being outright biased. |
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 | Matt Flegal ninjrk | Location: Alabama, United States Member Since: January 26, 2006
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| Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 03:39 AM UTC |
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The 88mm KwK 43 L/71 Schmalturm had been mocked up in wood at Daimler Benz, proving that handling the long ammo was cumbersome.
Purely my own idea, but adding a rear turret extension like on the Tiger-B turret would provide some extra stowage space.
As to the hulls, well, those seem to match the HL-Doyle drawings. One could even get some variations on the E-75 as the running gear layout could differ depending on which company was involded, Weserhütte or Adler and the latter also had different approaches. An E-75 with 6 roadwheels was an option.
The E-75 turret shown on the Trumpeter board does match the July '45 Tiger-B drawings in the VK-4502 book by Jentz, so that would be a nice addition to the Tiger-B variations collection 
But having not yet read Jentz' Paper-Panzers PT-volumes, I don't know exactly what new info he has, I do have the Spezial Panzer book by Spielberger.
I do get the idea that Trumpeter just took the E-series into plastic for that, to have them in plastic and cut off the expensive resin offerings. Their E-100 is quite laughable and copying a turret design directly from someone else without crediting, that's quite bad behaviour, worse than anyone can acuse DML of doing
We'll see what the final kit looks like but the drawings look exactly like Doyle's drawings and I have a sneaking feeling they photoshopped his drawings together. That said, the stuff in the Panzer Tracts seriees is pretty basic, no turrrets are depicted and the drawings seem uncheanged. My guess remains that they're going to copy Bruce Crosby's original E50 master that became the basis for the two Cromwell kits and hence the KT-1945 turret is there because that's what Cromwell did. If so, the tracks will be the Cromwell alterations to what Brucce researched but that's an easy fix. I have no doubt that Trumpeter will clear all of this with Gordon Brown before they do anything, of course. . . Matt |
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