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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
WW II German AFV Camo Datasheet/Timeline
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 09:51 AM UTC
OK I have a question. Is this a possible DAK camo pattern? If so, would I be better off using near matches or nit pick till I have a migrain?
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2013 - 05:07 PM UTC
The painting orders state that the disruptive color should be painted in patches, but this is a totally plausible and acceptable pattern. Before you tear your hair out trying to match colors, buy the AK Interactive Afrika Korps Colors box set. This is a fantastic set. The colors are all accurate, the paint is airbrush ready and shoots like a dream, and instead of spending a whole day on the internet searching, you instantly get it all in one box. $20.95 for 6 colors from www.ak-interactive-usa.com.
long123
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 11:20 AM UTC

I will be getting in touch with you on some of these for future color additions to our paint line!
HDC phones
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, August 31, 2015 - 11:02 PM UTC
Okay!
marcb
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Posted: Monday, August 31, 2015 - 11:19 PM UTC
This review on Armorama has a pic showing the 2/3 grey 1/3 braun scheme. I assume the Tropen scheme would look the same.
http://www.armorama.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=4156
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This review on Armorama has a pic showing the 2/3 grey 1/3 braun scheme. I assume the Tropen scheme would look the same.
http://www.armorama.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=4156



SSGToms
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Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 11:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This review on Armorama has a pic showing the 2/3 grey 1/3 braun scheme. I assume the Tropen scheme would look the same.
http://www.armorama.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=4156


That's correct. The Tropen scheme calls for 2/3 base color and 1/3 disruptive color.
rover5700
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Posted: Friday, May 27, 2016 - 11:59 PM UTC


AK167 German Camouflage, Rotbraun & Olivgun Modulation Set.

Can anyone tell me if this is late 1944-45 or earlier? I'm looking for the green and brown to go with Dunkelgelb. AK Interactive seams to have a lot of shades of green in their AK560 set German War Colors 1937-44 that I've never heard of before(Oligrun RAL6003 AK755, Dunkelgrum RAL6003 AK752...)

And would Dunkelgelb RAL7028(AK753) be correct for this modulation set?



http://www.magictoybox-online.co.uk/acatalog/info_ak167.html
rover5700
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Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 03:20 AM UTC
I did find this 49 pages back....


http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=211932&page=1
Seroster
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 02:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The painting orders state that the disruptive color should be painted in patches, but this is a totally plausible and acceptable pattern. Before you tear your hair out trying to match colors, buy the AK Interactive Afrika Korps Colors box set. This is a fantastic set. The colors are all accurate, the paint is airbrush ready and shoots like a dream, and instead of spending a whole day on the internet searching, you instantly get it all in one box. $20.95 for 6 colors from www.ak-interactive-usa.com.



Thank you for referring to that! Are their other sets similarly accurate?

I was actually hoping to come up with some individual paint colour ideas to hint at to my relatives as good Christmas stocking stuffers. Are any of the Vallejo paints good for the base vehicle colours?
steviecee
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2017 - 05:38 AM UTC
A novel way to apply paint pictured here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Foto-Sturmgeschutz-Brigade-322-StuG-Panzer-Tarnung-Ostfront-Kessel-Brody-1944-/311780947841?hash=item489797b781:g:VFgAAOSwt5hYe9zc
retiredyank
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Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2017 - 01:03 PM UTC
I found this site
( http://www.stugiii.com/germanvehiclecamouflage.html ) to be helpful, in determining which paint shades to use. It only lists Vallejo, Tamiya and Gunze; but can be cross-referenced with http://www.paint4models.com .
Phillipjl
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

World War II German AFV Camouflage Painting Datasheet and Timeline

1. December 1, 1927 – Nr. 17 Erdgelb-matt, Nr. 28 Gruen-matt, Nr. 18 Braun-matt.
2. November 7, 1938 – Nr. 46 Dunkelgrau covering 2/3, Nr. 45 Dunkelbraun covering 1/3.
3. July 31, 1940 – Dunkelgrau RAL 7021.
4. February 18, 1943 – Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 basecoat, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017.
5. August 19, 1944 – Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 basecoat, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017 in Hinterhalt – Tarnung (the “Ambush” scheme).
6. September 31, 1944 – Rotoxid primer, “sparingly applied patches” of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017.
7. November 20, 1944 – Olivgrun RAL 6003 basecoat, Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Rotbraun RAL 8017 “in sharp contours”. (To go into full effect June 1, 1945).

Tropen Pattern

1. March 17, 1941 – Grunbraun RAL 8000 covering 2/3, Graugrun RAL 7008 covering 1/3.
2. March 25, 1942 – Gelbbraun RAL 8020 covering 2/3, Sandgrau RAL 7027 covering 1/3.

Dates are Inspektorate 2 order dates.
RAL Farbtonkarte of June 1932 and RAL Farbtonkarte of February 10, 1941.
Note that RAL Farbtonkarte was revised in 1953 and 1961. Current RAL numbers, colors and titles DO NOT match World War II Numbers, colors and titles.


Hopefully this answers a lot of questions.




This is interesting, i am currently building an early DAK Pz. IV F2 and I suspect these would have the March ‘42 tropen scheme, factory applied, over red oxide, correct? No Dunkelgrau underneath, as is ofted depicted? Also that would mean the tools etc. would not be overpainted I believe. Sound about right?
RLlockie
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 09:16 AM UTC
Sounds good to me.

The idea of all German vehicles in Africa wearing back to Dunkelgrau is based on the widely photographed initial batches of vehicles from 5. leichte Div, which arrived on Dunkelgrau and were repainted locally. By the time the F2/G was being shipped, the factories were completing designated Tropen vehicles in the Tropen scheme.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 09:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

World War II German AFV Camouflage Painting Datasheet and Timeline

1. December 1, 1927 – Nr. 17 Erdgelb-matt, Nr. 28 Gruen-matt, Nr. 18 Braun-matt.
2. November 7, 1938 – Nr. 46 Dunkelgrau covering 2/3, Nr. 45 Dunkelbraun covering 1/3.
3. July 31, 1940 – Dunkelgrau RAL 7021.
4. February 18, 1943 – Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 basecoat, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017.
5. August 19, 1944 – Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 basecoat, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017 in Hinterhalt – Tarnung (the “Ambush” scheme).
6. September 31, 1944 – Rotoxid primer, “sparingly applied patches” of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017.
7. November 20, 1944 – Olivgrun RAL 6003 basecoat, Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Rotbraun RAL 8017 “in sharp contours”. (To go into full effect June 1, 1945).

Tropen Pattern

1. March 17, 1941 – Grunbraun RAL 8000 covering 2/3, Graugrun RAL 7008 covering 1/3.
2. March 25, 1942 – Gelbbraun RAL 8020 covering 2/3, Sandgrau RAL 7027 covering 1/3.

Dates are Inspektorate 2 order dates.
RAL Farbtonkarte of June 1932 and RAL Farbtonkarte of February 10, 1941.
Note that RAL Farbtonkarte was revised in 1953 and 1961. Current RAL numbers, colors and titles DO NOT match World War II Numbers, colors and titles.


Hopefully this answers a lot of questions.




This is interesting, i am currently building an early DAK Pz. IV F2 and I suspect these would have the March ‘42 tropen scheme, factory applied, over red oxide, correct? No Dunkelgrau underneath, as is ofted depicted? Also that would mean the tools etc. would not be overpainted I believe. Sound about right?



As I understand it yes that would be right. From what I remember from another thread, only the first vehicles sent over early in 41 were in dukelgrau. These were overpainted in the field, possibly with paint from Italian stocks or sometimes plain old mud. Those are the vehicles that would see heavy sandblasting through to the grey. At some point soon after, they started to arrive from the factory in the 8000 & 7008 scheme. This is actually quite a darker scheme than the paler colours that came into use in 42. 8000 is not far off the desert pink the RAF used in Desert Storm. The build up of sand and dust against the dark paint is what is sometimes mistaken for chipping to dark grey. Although that's not to say that some grey vehicles weren't resprayed with it. It's highly possible.
But for what you want to do, factory applied over red oxide is what you want to go with.
Hard to tell with tools, but I'd find as many photos as you can and see if they help.
Phillipjl
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 10:39 AM UTC
Thanks, I have been scouring photos, its hard to tell exactly, and as most ww2 modelers know, the quality is usually not good. I presume the Bovington Tiger would be a helpful resource for getting an idea of colors and pattern, but I do consider that it is a modern paintjob, and the exact accuracy cannot be confirmed. Also it seems that factory applied paint doesn’t chip easily, and certainly nothing like a hastily applied ‘in the field’ camo. I have run accross an excellent Pz. IV photo which shows the spare tracks painted the same color as the vehicle itself, does anyone know if that is the way they were? I still don’t know how to post photos here or I would post it. Heres a link; http://www.history.jp/images/SK-Dia30-Teil.jpg its a fantastic picture of a tropen Pz IV, showing the gelbraun and Graugrün I believe. Of interesting note is the drivers hatch, which appears dunklegrau on the inside. This may be a colorized photo, so accuracy of hue might not be exact.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 11:16 AM UTC
It's always hard to tell with colourized photos. But that's a good one, that's pretty close to the shade in the bottle of AK RAL8000.

Talking about Bovingtons Tiger, they have resprayed it and tried to get it as accurate as possible. This video they released has a lot of interesting information.

https://youtu.be/FM8ghQJ4TfA
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 11:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks, I have been scouring photos, its hard to tell exactly, and as most ww2 modelers know, the quality is usually not good. I presume the Bovington Tiger would be a helpful resource for getting an idea of colors and pattern, but I do consider that it is a modern paintjob, and the exact accuracy cannot be confirmed. Also it seems that factory applied paint doesn’t chip easily, and certainly nothing like a hastily applied ‘in the field’ camo. I have run accross an excellent Pz. IV photo which shows the spare tracks painted the same color as the vehicle itself, does anyone know if that is the way they were? I still don’t know how to post photos here or I would post it. Heres a link; http://www.history.jp/images/SK-Dia30-Teil.jpg its a fantastic picture of a tropen Pz IV, showing the gelbraun and Graugrün I believe. Of interesting note is the drivers hatch, which appears dunklegrau on the inside. This may be a colorized photo, so accuracy of hue might not be exact.


During its restoration, the Bovington Tiger was stripped slowly, and each layer of paint was carefully documented. The current scheme is as exact a match to the original paint colors as they could create. The Tiger had been delivered in the 1941 colors, despite the late period, as old paint stocks were ordered to be used up before new paints were introduced. Apparently. Henschel had a lot of old paint onhand.
RLlockie
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Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 04:14 AM UTC
Indeed. There was original unweathered pain found on inner roadwheels.

Of course it wasn’t glossy back in 1943😉
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 04:41 AM UTC
What interests me most about the Tank Museums research is finding out that the paints were base oxides, formulated to not fade in sun light! A little nugget I'm keeping in mind.
Be interested to see some similar research on allied paints.

Johnnych01
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Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 09:36 PM UTC
Just came across this thread, great source of info - Thank you Matt ..... what would be the best match for inside of 1944 to June 45 Pzrs including hatch inners ??
henrikpalmberg
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Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2019 - 04:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just came across this thread, great source of info - Thank you Matt ..... what would be the best match for inside of 1944 to June 45 Pzrs including hatch inners ??



Ive read that the tanks were left in primer on the inside towards the end of the war, so either ”oxide red” or dunkelgelb.

Also, the OP stated that AFV left the factory with primer showing in the later period of the war. This should be concidered not correct nowadays. The proof that this happened are basiclly non-excisting.