New/Modified M60 with 120mm
#159
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 564 posts
Posted: Friday, May 12, 2017 - 03:33 PM UTC
effort like taking the time to spell check your smashing of the 6 year old thread........ couple of pretty glaring spelling issues, punctuation, and capitalization... just sayin' since you came out with guns blazing about being more intelligent....LOL
Membership Secretary
www.amps-armor.org
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,355 posts
Armorama: 979 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 05:29 AM UTC
Since you are a self-professed research expert, where did you obtain your information from?
No need, I bow down to your awesomeness, Super Research Man!
Or is it Arm-Chair Researcher?
And as others have said, where were you nearly six YEARS ago?
ESSAYONS!
"Man does not live until he looks to the future, and that is his salvation in the worst of times.".... (Author Unknown)
AMPS #2102
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 09:44 AM UTC
I don't like wasting my time trolling pages with comments, that are guesses, more than any based on backed or some what factual info
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 09:47 AM UTC
[/quote]
Since you are a self-professed research expert, where did you obtain your information from?
[/quote]
The web and printed text, is more often than not, better than a Forum
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 06:16 PM UTC
Since you are a self-professed research expert, where did you obtain your information from?
[/quote]
The web and printed text, is more often than not, better than a Forum[/quote]
Did you ever consider that 6 years ago when this thread was started there might not have been as much info available as there is now Mr. Research? And while you didn't come here to comment on guesses you did come here to troll.
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,355 posts
Armorama: 979 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 08:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't like wasting my time trolling pages with comments, that are guesses, more than any based on backed or some what factual info
So why then did you read the entire thread of posted "guesses" and then make a comment?
I for one had a great deal of fun with this thread, and I also think this would make a great conversion project.
ESSAYONS!
"Man does not live until he looks to the future, and that is his salvation in the worst of times.".... (Author Unknown)
AMPS #2102
New York, United States
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
Armorama: 1,712 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 09:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Since you are a self-professed research expert, where did you obtain your information from?
Quoted Text
The web and printed text, is more often than not, better than a Forum
At times of questioning, people on a forum who have first hand knowledge are, sometimes, the only readily available source of information. Sometimes you just can't get the information you can get from other people who have been there from a book. That's why you come to forums.
I do some 3D design work. Message me for more info on what I'm doing or have done. Inquire about a product catalog.
#159
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 564 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 09:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I don't like wasting my time trolling pages with comments, that are guesses, more than any based on backed or some what factual info
So why then did you read the entire thread of posted "guesses" and then make a comment?
I for one had a great deal of fun with this thread, and I also think this would make a great conversion project.
and you are right sir!!! I just saw something today about the M-60T being further upgraded due to some usages in Syria .
Janes 360 had the article.
http://www.janes.com/article/70356/idef-2017-upgraded-m60t-mbt-breaks-coverMembership Secretary
www.amps-armor.org
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorStockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, May 15, 2017 - 02:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Since you are a self-professed research expert, where did you obtain your information from?
The web and printed text, is more often than not, better than a Forum[/quote]
Did you ever consider that 6 years ago when this thread was started there might not have been as much info available as there is now Mr. Research? And while you didn't come here to comment on guesses you did come here to troll.[/quote]
The Raytheon upgrade package surfaced almost exactly one year ago, not six years ago ....
National interest blog, 2016
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/raytheon-can-turn-old-american-made-m60a3-tanks-killing-16142Video on YouTube by the "official" Raytheon channel, posted May 10th 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwUTEkRano&linkId=24324955TankAndAfvNews 11th of May 2016:
https://tankandafvnews.com/2016/05/11/raytheon-m60-upgrade/ comments on the National Interest blog.
If anyone had mentioned the upcoming Raytheon programme 6 years ago there would probably have been a frantic search for the leak inside Raytheon ....
Maybe it wouldn't have gone all the way to charges about industrial espionage but who knows
Defense News dragged their feet into June 2016 (5th of June)
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/army/2016/06/05/raytheon-breathes-new-life-into-patton-tanks/85343566/ Breaking news which broke more than 3 weeks earlier.
Guesses and assumptions in 2012 became truth and facts in 2016. If I were able to predict the future so accurately I would become rich from betting and lotteries. Next years winner of the Super Bowl anyone?
The Turkish upgrade package was mentioned already back then, six years ago ...
/ Robin
In memory of Al Superczynski:
"Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to....
and the critics will flame you every time"
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Monday, May 15, 2017 - 04:45 AM UTC
The past couple of days I did a year by year search from 2010 to 2016, did the same with photo search and there wasn't much info on these out there until late 2014 early 15, most of the info was about the turkish upgrades. The OP got a bit of a scoop with those pictures.
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 06:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
effort like taking the time to spell check your smashing of the 6 year old thread........ couple of pretty glaring spelling issues, nitely notpunctuation, and capitalization... just sayin' since you came out with guns blazing about being more intelligent....LOL
Definitely not were's the guns
spell chk is inop
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 06:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I don't like wasting my time trolling pages with comments, that are guesses, more than any based on backed or some what factual info
So why then did you read the entire thread of posted "guesses" and then make a comment?
I for one had a great deal of fun with this thread, and I also think this would make a great conversion project.
I agree with you 100%, would make an excellent project, which was added to "To Do List" 5 years ago, since I have more info than posted here. Cheers
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 06:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
And as others have said, where were you nearly six YEARS ago?
Digging Arab sand from every crack in my body
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,355 posts
Armorama: 979 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 07:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I agree with you 100%, would make an excellent project, which was added to "To Do List" 5 years ago, since I have more info than posted here. Cheers
Please share your info with the rest of us, especially those who would like to build a conversion of this interesting vehicle.
ESSAYONS!
"Man does not live until he looks to the future, and that is his salvation in the worst of times.".... (Author Unknown)
AMPS #2102
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,355 posts
Armorama: 979 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 07:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
And as others have said, where were you nearly six YEARS ago?
Digging Arab sand from every crack in my body
That I accept as a very legitimate excuse, but your first comment came across as derogatory and demeaning.
If you had been able to respond when this thread was first posted, would you have provided specific information and sources to inform us?
ESSAYONS!
"Man does not live until he looks to the future, and that is his salvation in the worst of times.".... (Author Unknown)
AMPS #2102
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 09:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
And as others have said, where were you nearly six YEARS ago?
Digging Arab sand from every crack in my body
That I accept as a very legitimate excuse, but your first comment came across as derogatory and demeaning.
If you had been able to respond when this thread was first
posted, would you have provided specific information and sources to inform us?
If I were viewing 6 yrs ago, instead of chasing Towel Heads, I would have posted everything I had and would have been less abrasive. After viewing for an hour I couldn't take any more banter, and to quick to retaliate.
I find doing google searches only starts to spark more interest,I do wiki,and Manufacture webs more thoroughly.
in reality there has been (3) spin-off upgrade proposals to the M60. The M60-2000, M60 UCV, and M60T which Turkey took shipment of.They also did the same thing to the Russian T-62 but I think that was Teledyne
But it got the M60 Diesel, wheels & Suspension, and Firing/Stab. suite. Also upgraded Comms and sights
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 09:23 PM UTC
I have been a crewchief for 15 yrs and a wrencher for (3) aircraft,
12F for 4yrs, and wheeled & Tracked Mech for 19yrs, so I've seen my fair share of neet Equipment. All this Army time only FUELS my MODEL FIX even more, can't get enough.
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 06:21 AM UTC
Humm.... As an old tanker, that turret is getting pretty crowded. The 120mm breach is quite a bit larger than the M68 105mm. Add to that the probable electronic/sighting upgrades. That would probably reduce the turret ammo ready rack storage from the M60 with the 105. You may be looking at 6 rounds with the wider breach and wider ammo. The crew would also have less space. As a tanker, I might prefer up grading the 105 breach and go with more rounds of DU.
Msgt Retired USMC
M48/ M60A1/ M1A1
Semper Fi!
Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 09:16 AM UTC
So, besides all these proposed 'plans to' and 'possibly upgrade' and one-off prototypes are there any actual photos of 120mm armed M-60A1/3's in the field? Turkish, Jordan or otherwise?
Jim
"Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodel" - Zapp Brannigan
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 10:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, besides all these proposed 'plans to' and 'possibly upgrade' and one-off prototypes are there any actual photos of 120mm armed M-60A1/3's in the field? Turkish, Jordan or otherwise?
Jim
One of the blogs I found says the Turkish M60T Sabra is armed with the 120mm provided by Israel.
There are pictures showing these tanks in action. The fume extractor is definitely larger than a 105mm tanks.
I found a nifty feature on the forums called HIDE USER.
I was going to try it on myself and go stealth, but it only works on other users.
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 11:59 AM UTC
The Israeli 120 was designed for possible mounting in the M60 at some point in time. The breech of the Rheinmetal 120 is squared off corners whereas the M68 was founded off. Round off the breech and adjust the ammo storage and it would work.
I was working on a theoretical M60A4 what-if 15 years ago. It had the 120mm and a new low profile cupola based on the one on an M1. Never finished it and with all the talk of uprating the ammo of the 105mm gun I put that gun back on. Then took off the M1 cupola it originally mounted and put the original TC cupola back on but with its own TTS inside. Quick snd easy way for the commander to have his own independent thermal sight. After hard experience as an M1 TC and hating the basterdized thing they called the TC cupola I retained the M85 as that wasn't the problem I had thought.
Got to come to some kind of conclusions regarding configuration and finish the damn model.
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 01:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, besides all these proposed 'plans to' and 'possibly upgrade' and one-off prototypes are there any actual photos of 120mm armed M-60A1/3's in the field? Turkish, Jordan or otherwise?
Jim
The Turks do have the M60T (SABRA Based) tank in service, and it is armed w/ a German developed 120mm smooth-bore. A recent conflict saw the M60T survive a ATGM hit. Although the details of the incident, cannot conclude, that said tank is impervious to all ATGM attempts
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
#159
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 564 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 02:38 AM UTC
So, Todd you were deployed in 2010 or 11? I was in Iraq in 09-10..... anywhere near the VBC?
Membership Secretary
www.amps-armor.org
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 07:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
So, besides all these proposed 'plans to' and 'possibly upgrade' and one-off prototypes are there any actual photos of 120mm armed M-60A1/3's in the field? Turkish, Jordan or otherwise?
Jim
The Turks do have the M60T (SABRA Based) tank in service, and it is armed w/ a German developed 120mm smooth-bore. A recent conflict saw the M60T survive a ATGM hit. Although the details of the incident, cannot conclude, that said tank is impervious to all ATGM attempts
There is a video supposedly showing a ATMG fired at and hitting an M60T during the fighting there. As the video was at long range it was hard to see what the damage was to the tank, but the Turkish Army lost one Sabra in the fighting according to a blog I found. I thought that blog was anti-Turkish/USA so who knows how accurate it is/was. They also claimed the loss of 10 Leopards.
Regardless, the M60T would make a really cool model.
I found a nifty feature on the forums called HIDE USER.
I was going to try it on myself and go stealth, but it only works on other users.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 09:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Turks do have the M60T (SABRA Based) tank in service, and it is armed w/ a German developed 120mm smooth-bore.
No, Sabra is armed with Israeli developed MG253 120mm smooth-bore, not German.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
