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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
WWII German Weapon ID?
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
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Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 - 10:05 AM GMT+7
Hello all,

Can anyone identify the weapons being held in this Afrika Korps image — especially the middle one? I’m guessing it's a sniper or anti-tank rifle of some sort. Any additional information about the crew in the foreground Horch would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance.

—mike
mbrman
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United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 - 10:18 AM GMT+7
Maybe a Boys anti-tank rifle?

Dave
Tanksami
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 - 11:02 AM GMT+7
Or the German pzb 41, I think it was called, dragon to an early war infantry set with them. HTP

Mike
justsendit
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Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 - 06:26 PM GMT+7
Thanks for the replies!

I did some more searching and may have found another possibility ... 7.92 mm Panzerbuchse 39 (Pz.B.39): Antitank Rifle
What do you think?

—mike
AFVFan
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: May 17, 2012
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 12:52 AM GMT+7
I think you might be right, Mike. The other two weapons visible look like MG34s
TwistedRider
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: September 03, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 12:58 AM GMT+7
I think the 7.92 mm Panzerbuchse 39 (Pz.B.39): Antitank Rifle is the winner.

You can see the bipod in the phots as well, and it's in the right place.

Gun barrel on the left is definitely an MG42
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 03:53 AM GMT+7
Ill vote for the AT rifle probably being a PzB 39 - the MG are more likely MG-34, based on muzzle-brake shape and front sight post, and the fact that it is present in a DAK truck with that PzB 39.

The MG 42 started production late in 1942 and only a modest number went out to any units before 1943 - and primarily to east-front units first. Probably very rare in North Africa before JAN '43. The PzB 39, on the other hand, was already obsolete by 1941, and few continued in use later in '42+ - they didn't have much utility ...

Just my opinion, of course!

Bob
AFVFan
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 07:39 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Ill vote for the AT rifle probably being a PzB 39 - the MG are more likely MG-34, based on muzzle-brake shape and front sight post,......



You can also see the barrel diameter of the gun on the left just above the windshield frame is no bigger than the muzzle brake. The 42's barrel looks bigger there because of the square shroud around it. It also looks like both of the MGs are bipod equipped.
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 11, 2015 - 07:39 AM GMT+7
I appreciate the replies — very informative. Thanks!

—mike
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 05, 2016 - 01:12 PM GMT+7
Here's a little teaser for you guys ...

The Horch assembly is nearly complete and I think I’ve got the crew seating arrangement somewhat dialed-in. Just a shaky dry-fit for now — still lots of work ahead of me.

Thanks for having a look!🍺

—mike
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
#040
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Metro Manila, Philippines
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Posted: Friday, August 05, 2016 - 01:42 PM GMT+7
Looking sharp Mike, nice work! Upon closer inspection the guy holding the AT rifle looks like to be holding an MG (?) with his left hand -- you plan to do that as well? Cheers, Tat
justsendit
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Posted: Friday, August 05, 2016 - 01:58 PM GMT+7
Thanks Tat! ... Still thinking on that one, it largely depends on the fit.

—mike
justsendit
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Posted: Friday, August 05, 2016 - 03:55 PM GMT+7
Done! ... Thanks Tat, for that observation. I gave it another go and with just a little effort the result was even better than I had expected, it actually helped in balancing-out the scene. ... Now there's a third MG in the nest!

Cheers!
—mike
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 02:16 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Here's a little teaser for you guys ...

The Horch assembly is nearly complete and I think I’ve got the crew seating arrangement somewhat dialed-in. Just a shaky dry-fit for now — still lots of work ahead of me.
—mike



Is your photo squeezed a bit vertically? Your model looks narrower than the real vehicle. Or is that manufacturer error?
justsendit
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Posted: Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 04:03 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Is your photo squeezed a bit vertically? Your model looks narrower than the real vehicle. Or is that manufacturer error?


Hi Biggles2, thanks for looking in!
Yup! I noticed the original image (plucked from the web) had been scrunched vertically. This became very apparent when I combined the side-by-side images. The effect is exaggerated even further by how loosely the kit body is sitting on the chassis. This was due to some very tedious figure dry-fitting in order to get to this stage. No manufacture error here, the kit is Bronco’s (35175), ‘Mittlerer Einheits PersonenKraftwagen Kfz.12 (early version)’ which fits together extremely well.
Armorama In-Box Review.
Still racking my brain on a title. ... Whenever I come up with one, I’ll prepare and post some more progress pics in a separate build blog. Suggestions welcome.

Cheers!
—mike
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 01:29 AM GMT+7
Hi Mike

Looks great to me, some random thoughts:

1)That’s a Luftwaffe number plate, I haven’t made a study of the N. Africa campaigns but does that mean they’re not Afrika Korp? I don’t know if there’s any distinction uniform-wise, in any case they might just be hitching a lift.

2)Is that a lightning symbol (Horsch’s?) on the radiator?

3)Title – as it’s a one-eyed car, something about “In the land of the blind the one-eyed is king” but that’s pretty obscure. Or again considering the state of the vehicle, “Demolition derby” especially if you had the other car racing alongside in a similar condition (on the far side unseen in the photo, like a door hanging off)

Cheers, Tim
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
#040
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Metro Manila, Philippines
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 01:39 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Done! ... Thanks Tat, for that observation. I gave it another go and with just a little effort the result was even better than I had expected, it actually helped in balancing-out the scene. ... Now there's a third MG in the nest!

Cheers!
—mike



Cool -- look forward to your progress Mike! Do post pics when available. Cheers, Tat
Ibuild148
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California, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 02:13 PM GMT+7
Your doing a great Job on this Mike. I will follow.
justsendit
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Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 05:38 AM GMT+7
Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments! Glad you like it so far!

Tim,
1) I agree ... Luftwaffe. For what it’s worth, upon some initial web searches, that number plate (WL 226769) happened to turn up within this link: 'License plate listing (RW, WH, WL, POL, SS).’ As far as the uniforms … The figures have shorts and rolled-up sleeves, so I’m hoping that this will fit the scenario.
2) Could it be a key? 🗝 … Thought I read or saw somewhere that keys were used as luck charms … like the horseshoes I’ve seen on AFVs. Whatever it is, I would like to include it. On that note, here’s a possible title: ‘As Luck Would Have It!’
3) I thought about adding more background vehicles, but I decided to keep this one small … for now anyway.

I’m still pondering what these guys are actually up to with that Panzerbüchse rifle. Could this be a forward advance … or maybe a retreat? Looks to me like they grabbed-up any available vehicle regardless of the condition, so long as it provided transport through the desert.

Cheers!
—mike
Ibuild148
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California, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:10 AM GMT+7
Found this for you
listing numéro de plaques des forces allemandes WWII avec concordance du véhicule part 3 WHERMACHT (8) - Small tracks
www.small-tracks.org › t5681-listing-nu...
listing numéro de plaques des forces allemandes WWII avec concordance du .... WL 226769 Pkw Kfz 15 /Horch Afrika
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 04, 2016
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Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 11:25 PM GMT+7
Hi Mike,

Agree uniforms no problem. Could be a key, it’s not a Horsch symbol – still looks like a lightning bolt to me but that was Opel’s emblem…sure it’s a Horsch & not some weird Opel staff car? Not my area so I don’t know.

The impression in the main photo is they’re moving at speed, but the tyre treads aren’t blurred and I would have expected more dust spewing out behind – hard to tell if there’s any dust at all or just faded photo quality, but given you can see vehicles in the distance I’m thinking it’s the latter. Could be rolling at low speed I guess, or a staged stationary propaganda pic.

As for what they’re up to that’s moot – unlikely to be a recce with a truck coming up behind. Riding shotgun for a supply drop? Hey, maybe there’s a title.
Cheers, Tim
justsendit
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Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:23 AM GMT+7
Marc,
I believe that’s the same info. … thanks anyway!

I’ve got the plate ID sorted-out now. I was even able to find the decals at our good friends at Archer Fine Transfers, they should be arriving in the mail soon!

Tim,
Pretty certain it’s a Horch Kfz.12 or the 15 variety. The body parts seem correct and the width of the passenger compartment is the narrow type. In addition, the externally mounted spare tire is just visible in the photo.

As you’ve mentioned, the photo could have been taken at slow speed. However, driving through the desert does not always equal tons of dust as we often assume. The surface could also have been hard-pack in the North African environment. Check out this quick video: 'Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps – Battle of North Africa 1941'
Note how at times, the massive vehicle movement disturbs the softer sand to the point where it is nearly impossible to see. However, in the case of hard-pack, there's little if any dust at all.

Now if AK or Vallejo could just come up with a product that would suspend dust in mid-air … wishful thinking!

Cheers!
—mike
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 12:27 AM GMT+7
Hi Mike

OK re the car, I began to get confused when they started bringing out those Einheits variants tending to look similar but different manufacturers. Horschs they must be.

Don’t want to get over-forensic, I’d settle for slow speed – must be a purely propaganda shot, the Horsch behind didn’t have to retract its tilt to show happy kameraden on their way to Cairo, just the poor sods in the lead cars got sunburned and covered in sand – check out the shadows, looks like high noon & 120 in the shade.

Yeah it’s about time someone solved the suspended dust problem, only a few minor issues to resolve! While you’re waiting why not go where no dioramist has gone before - put it in a display case and hook up a hose blowing dust over everything inside. You’d only have to get in and dig them out every couple of hours…
justsendit
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 05:32 AM GMT+7
The shadows look like high noon for sure ☀️… but it’s a dry heat! 😅

Quoted Text

... While you’re waiting why not go where no dioramist has gone before …


Dude, that is definitely your department. I really like how convincing your dioramas are!💥 I’m gonna have my hands full just scratch-building the Jerry Can rack and the exposed brake-lines on this ride!

Thanks again for looking in!
—mike
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 05:40 AM GMT+7
Here's another Luftwaffe Horch picture showing the DAK symbol on the front door :



from this forum

H.P.