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M21 Mortar Motor Carriage (advice needed)
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 05:15 PM GMT+7
Hello all,

I have a DML (6362) M21 Mortar Motor Carriage (assembly) nearly completed. Building the kit OOB was the original plan, but you know how that goes.🤥

So, here we go again. Ö While building model, historical references/photos pile up neck deep during construction! 📚

For markings, I was considering the following as per an Armorama Kit Review: ďOption one is from the 2nd US Armored Division, Ardennes 1945. Itís distinguishing feature is the large yellow 1-15 on the sides.Ē
DML, M21 MMC, M21 81mm Mortar Motor Carriage.

Since Iím finding it hard to resist adding stuff, my question is: What figures are available that might be appropriate for a possible dio/vignette with the M21? Ö Thinking maybe in the fighting compartment and/or next to the vehicle. Here are the ones that call out to me thus far: MiniArt (35161) ĎUS Officersí and/or (35200) ĎUS Soldiers at Restí ó unsure of uniforms. BTW: The DML M21 kit does include a driver. Iím not opposed to a little slice-n-dice or adding resin heads, but with so many projects going at once, Iíd like not to get too carried away this time. I need to think about groundwork as well. Ö Ho boy! 🤔

Many thanks in advance for the schooling I am about to receive! 📚

Cheers!🍺
ómike
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 423 posts
Armorama: 412 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:35 PM GMT+7
Hi Mike

Have you considered the Miniart U.S. Jeep crew and MP set? Not sure how fit will be, but you have a driver another guy sitting, so one might suit you there, and a few guys that could be standing in or around the vehicle. The ammo pouches are separate so you can leave them off if you want and the rifle sling shown in the pic is not moulded to the body.
wedgetail53
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 599 posts
Armorama: 570 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 09:12 PM GMT+7
G'day Mike

I had a similar problem with an M4 mortar carrier, and used the old Tamiya M3A2 crew (assault infantry). Don't know how successful it's been yet as I have yet to try and fit them into the vehicle.

Regards

Rob
jrutman
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 6,233 posts
Armorama: 6,227 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 03:26 AM GMT+7
Considering the mortars were organic to all the infantry companies you can choose from any infantry figures sets really. Including resin figs. You may have to omit some things like bandoleers and e-tools but the mortar guys were just specialized grunts.
So,I suppose what you need to do is settle on a scene and then pick your little dudes accordingly ?
J
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 12:50 PM GMT+7
Peter, Rob, and Jerry, Thanks! Itís good to see there are some choices available.

Iíd like to conform to historical accuracy if at all possible, but there doesnít seem to be a whole lot of photo information available on the M21 variant (only 110 were built). Since this is my first attempt at US Armor, Im doing my research in order to avoid getting waylaid after-the-fact.

I know it sounds like I donít have a real plan, and Iím putting the horse before the cart Ö or is it track before the infantry? Ö Oh, thatís actually a good thing. 🤔 I do have a little something in mind (nothing special), but as soon as I can wrap my head around it, Iíll fixate on that mental image and go from there.

Time to go research some resin grunts and/or replacement heads.

As always, your comments are most welcome here.

Cheers!
ómike🍺
alewar
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Canelones, Uruguay
Joined: December 27, 2006
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 01:06 PM GMT+7
Hi, I get this one old set for my M4

https://www.google.com.uy/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F63.135.101.110%2Fd-m-propics%2FDIR_DRA%2FDRA6198%2FC_DRA6198_00.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dragon-models.com%2Fd-m-item.asp%3Fpid%3DDRA6198&docid=hSDIz7LatxFJJM&tbnid=I4skIIAvtcUzQM%3A&vet=1&w=550&h=357&safe=off&bih=589&biw=1366&q=dragon%20mortar%20team&ved=0ahUKEwi7-97aronSAhUDi5AKHaQ-DLIQMwhkKEAwQA&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=357&imgrc=I4skIIAvtcUzQM:&vet=1&w=550

petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 423 posts
Armorama: 412 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 01:10 PM GMT+7
I know where you are coming from. I based my recommendation on this pic:
xxhttp://cdn-5.olive-drab.com/images/id_m21_halftrack_01_700.jpgxx

And the few more you find of the M4 mortar Carrier. Different vehicles, but the grunts using them were pretty much the same roles.

Good luck on the project
Cheyenne56a
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: February 10, 2010
KitMaker: 29 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 03:23 PM GMT+7
you could modify the figures in DML kit #6163 101st Airborne in Bastogne. They are in winter gear for that time frame.
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 11:32 AM GMT+7
Hi guys, Those are some of the sets I was considering. Iíll need to look at posing possibilities now. The kit came with a driver and I've got him in pretty good shape already.

Thanks for all the input!🍺
ómike
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2017 - 09:59 AM GMT+7
Hi guys, I've got another question: I'm looking to add some stowage and was wondering which of the following Legend ration boxes would work with the M21. 📦📦 🤔

Early

Late


TIA,
ómike
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Friday, June 02, 2017 - 10:43 AM GMT+7
Advice needed bump ...☝️
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 752 posts
Armorama: 739 posts
Posted: Friday, June 02, 2017 - 11:02 AM GMT+7
What do you want the figures to be doing?
Should they be resting or in action?
obg153
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Texas, United States
Joined: April 07, 2009
KitMaker: 692 posts
Armorama: 678 posts
Posted: Friday, June 02, 2017 - 12:00 PM GMT+7
If you're going with the Jan-45, Ardennes idea, then I'd look for GI's wearing heavier clothing. Don't know the kit#, but Dragon had a set of 8 figs at the Remagen bridgehead, and IIRC there was a good mix of jackets, coats and poses.
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Friday, June 02, 2017 - 12:41 PM GMT+7
Mark and Jack,
Thanks, I've been getting the figures sorted out. ... Oh yeah, resting.

My most recent query was regarding the 'Legend' ration boxes for stowage possibilities (see June 01, 2017 post above).

ómike
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,432 posts
Posted: Friday, June 02, 2017 - 01:10 PM GMT+7
The answer to which rations box is "yes"

The earlier boxes were still in the supply pipeline in late 1944. If doing Korea I would say "maybe not" to the earlier boxes. In Korea stuff was supposedly finally showing up that had been in warehouses since 1942.

But 1944? No problem.
jrutman
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 6,233 posts
Armorama: 6,227 posts
Posted: Friday, June 02, 2017 - 11:02 PM GMT+7
Yes buddy,those ration boxes were the usual food issued to Lahdy Dahdy and everybody no matter what the rank or job. Stack'em in there man.
J
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 04:44 AM GMT+7
Thanks guys!
I'll make sure the troops don't go hungry! 📦📦📦📦📦

Bon appetite! 🍉
ómike
dioman13
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Indiana, United States
Joined: August 19, 2007
KitMaker: 2,088 posts
Armorama: 1,399 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 09:11 AM GMT+7
Hey Mike, I have some older Tamiya figures in heavy coats. If you want to have them just p.m. me with your add. and you can have them for nothing. Might help for action or hanging about.
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:18 PM GMT+7
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the very generous offer! Iíve already got some of the figure sets as suggested above in my stash with more to arrive next week. However, you never know what I might need. Can you be more specific about the Tamiya figures youíve mentioned? A kit number or a photo would help. Just in case youíd like to avoid the grind of uploading images, Iíve PMed you my e-mail address.

🔎 Currently, my focus is on finishing the M21 Mortar Motor Carriage, as Iíve enlisted in the ďHalf a Year for a Half TrackĒ campaign. With a deadline of June 30, 2017 rapidly approaching, figure construction/mods are in a holding pattern until after I've completed my entry.

Thanks to all for your input!🍺
ómike
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 - 03:13 PM GMT+7
Hello again,
Another query to the esteemed knowledgeable ones. 📚

Itís decal time and Iíve saved the hardest ones for last ó Ho boy! DML supplies the dreaded individual alpha-numerics, triangles, etc. decal sheet for serial numbers on the hood sides and maybe bumper codes too (unsure). So how does one avoid messing up the unit info., etc.? The box art suggests one thing and the instructions another (see below) and nothing about bumper codes front or rear.

Box art: U.S.A. 40141702
Instruction sheet: U.S.A. 401387

My instinct is to go with the latter, but Iím still clueless about the bumper codes. 🤔

TIA, 🍺
ómike
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,432 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 - 04:03 PM GMT+7
The USA number in the instructions is 4013870. A six digit code would have been an early war M2.

And bumper Codes? Find a World War 2 listing of units in the 2nd AD. What units would have had a mortar halftrack? (Armored infantry battalion headquarters?)

Or just leave the bumpers blank for front line operational security.
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 - 04:29 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

The USA number in the instructions is 4013870. A six digit code would have been an early war M2.

And bumper Codes? Find a World War 2 listing of units in the 2nd AD. What units would have had a mortar halftrack? (Armored infantry battalion headquarters?)

Or just leave the bumpers blank for front line operational security.


Stephen, You're right.
I made a typo on that instruction serial number. I missed typing that last 'zero' trying to find out if it was an 'O' when my computer started acting all weird.

At his point, I don't even know if I can handle those tiny numbers floating around in 'MicroSet Solution' anyway (vision impaired 🔍). However, from an artistic standpoint, it might be nice to include something there for contrast.

Thanks again!🍺
ómike
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,432 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 - 06:30 PM GMT+7
Second armored had 41st Armored Infantry, and 66 and 67 tank battalions. The M21 was used in mortar platoon in the headquarters company of the armored infantry or armor battalions.

There is a possibility that a platoon or mortars was in the reconnaissance battalion which was the 82 recon.

There's one of two ways depending on practices. Using 2^66^ Or 67^ or 41AI, or even 82R as the unit with HHC or HQ - 15 as the vehicle number. Fifteenth vehicle of headquarters company.

Or it could be 2^66^-X, MTR-15. That's one way of saying headquarters, 66 Armor battalion, mortar platoon 15.

World War 2 bumper codes weren't always cut and dried as they became postwar.

So that would be 2 triangle, either 66 or 67 triangle or 41AI or 82R, dash X. On the other bumper MTR dash 15.
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 02:08 PM GMT+7
Hey Stephen,
I meant to thank you for the advice. Much appreciated!

Cheers!🍺
ómike
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,496 posts
Armorama: 2,056 posts
Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 08:20 AM GMT+7
Gentlemen,

As a result of all the help provided here, I've been slowly breathing a little life into this project.

The DML (6362) M21 Mortar Motor Carriage was built for the 'Half a Year for a Half Track' Campaign.


Two figures from MiniArt (35047) US Jeep Crew + Hornet Heads and one hand.



Cheers!🍺
ómike