Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
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SAA T-72B3
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 07:02 AM UTC
Let's see how PB is going to work on this.

So far no PE set has the fender supports, Meng has none, and Trumpeter has poorly molded ones. They can't be seen very well, but with the Miniarm sets you need something. I discovered that the Trumpeter boxes and fuel tanks are better than Mengs, but still one long piece not separate parts. Trumpeter does the hold down straps about 90% correct, but Mengs are a joke. Trumpeter does do the straps, and the top mount, so I'll borrow a set from the T-90 parts kit to use on the Meng B3.

I'll design a set of fender support and try to 3D print them up.

These are for reference only! I forgot to add that to the pictures!



grunt136mike
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Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:39 AM UTC
Hi;

Really nice Work, and Attention to detail's !!!! But some of it is A Bit Overkill; There is really nothing wrong with the kit's exhaust details that A Pin-vise can't cure ! Yes Miniarm makes some Superb detail sets, and I have Purchased quite A few, esp; there Turret's ! But again there exhaust set was not that much better than the kit's part to make it worth it. Now some parts, I will agree that they can be improved, but some are not, For example; On the Tamiya T-72 which lacked A lot of details, which I built A Total of fifteen different versions, one of the added improvement was Drilling out the Exhaust to give it extra depth. I have all of the trumpy, T-72 version's as well as Meng's and there Finder details are Superb, and it makes for A added Build feature for Modeling missing fuel pannier's or zip boxes, which IMHO makes for A more interesting vehicle.

CHEERS; MIKE.
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 11:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi;

Really nice Work, and Attention to detail's !!!! But some of it is A Bit Overkill; There is really nothing wrong with the kit's exhaust details that A Pin-vise can't cure ! Yes Miniarm makes some Superb detail sets, and I have Purchased quite A few, esp; there Turret's ! But again there exhaust set was not that much better than the kit's part to make it worth it. Now some parts, I will agree that they can be improved, but some are not, For example; On the Tamiya T-72 which lacked A lot of details, which I built A Total of fifteen different versions, one of the added improvement was Drilling out the Exhaust to give it extra depth. I have all of the trumpy, T-72 version's as well as Meng's and there Finder details are Superb, and it makes for A added Build feature for Modeling missing fuel pannier's or zip boxes, which IMHO makes for A more interesting vehicle.

CHEERS; MIKE.



It's been a while since someone said I had over kill on a model! Thanks for that!

I can agree on the exhaust, but I got a good price on it, and wanted to see how it looked. I am trying out a set of Miniarm fender boxes and fuel tanks, which is why I was looking at the fender supports. I want something to hold the PE straps onto.

The only thing I had 15 of while building models is excuses why I didn't finish anything.
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 11:35 AM UTC
I made up a set of fender supports, and got them up at Shapeways for testing. Once I have any problems sorted out I'll put them up for anyone interested.

JSSVIII
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Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 03:06 PM UTC
Thanks for sharing your work on the fender supports Randall, I will be getting a set for sure!
grunt136mike
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Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 11:12 PM UTC
Hi;

My Commit was Not ment to be A Slight on your Modeling skills our your subject; And I am A Poor excuse for trying to add that extra touch that really is not necessary. Myself as A Modeler; I like to see just How far that I can go to improve A kit just by Scratch building extra detail's ! And I am Not your typical normal modeler, I Build Models on A Collector mentality, that's why I have Soo many T-72s in my collection ! But that's just Me, and I really Enjoy looking at individuals like yourself who can Work Magic on A Model !!!!!!!!

CHEERS; MIKE.
m4sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 12:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi;

My Commit was Not ment to be A Slight on your Modeling skills our your subject; And I am A Poor excuse for trying to add that extra touch that really is not necessary. Myself as A Modeler; I like to see just How far that I can go to improve A kit just by Scratch building extra detail's ! And I am Not your typical normal modeler, I Build Models on A Collector mentality, that's why I have Soo many T-72s in my collection ! But that's just Me, and I really Enjoy looking at individuals like yourself who can Work Magic on A Model !!!!!!!!

CHEERS; MIKE.



Mike,

I do not feel slighted in the slightest! Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Actually, I think I got a little carried away with the Meng T-72. After doing more research last night I think I might be better off using the Miniarm fender parts on the beat up Trumpeter T-72B I am also working on. The Meng build is a new tank entering combat on the plains outside Palmyra and the separate parts are not an advantage. I have a Eduard PE set for the T-90 that can be used to add some detail to the fender boxes.

Then I could wrap up the T-72B3 and do the more detailed fenders when the 3D supports come in. If Shapeways doesn't give me the old not printable bs again.

Thanks,
Randy
m4sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 09:25 PM UTC
The turret is about finished, and I have the gun on for a test look. I really, really, REALLY don't like the guns elevation, but you are stuck do to the way the gun mantlet is designed. However it can be made to work with the scene I have in mind (that may never get done). Here is where a AM set for a level gun tube would be worth getting. I can't sculpt canvas at all, so I'm stuck waiting for the people who can.

I had a RB barrel for a T-90 in hand, and noticed it matched the B3 Meng barrel. I glued it into the mantlet so it would not be rolling around while I added the PE parts. What a XXXX! This is my first barrel with the thermal shroud, and it is not a joyous encounter so far. Mostly my fault. To hold the barrel in place I coated the hole in the mantlet with a thin layer of filler and let is set up over night. In the morning I added a drop of superglue inside. Maybe the metal barrel is not needed, but I am going to replace the Trumpeter kit barrel, and I wanted the two tanks to have similar upgrades.

Trumpeters fender fuel tanks are a little better than the Meng parts. I found they fit on the Meng kit well enough to be used.



YouTube videos of the T-72's with the ERA blocks are giving me the urge to do one of those types. The Bear in the Sand book has two T-72's featured that were built on the Trumpeter model. I might have to stay on the dark side longer than I expected.
m4sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 08:03 AM UTC
Third try on the barrel. After getting strips across the top on I started on the clamps and lost the strip closest to the mantlet. I got 4 of the clamps on, then I was looking at pictures of the real barrels and noticed I had the lock ring to the fume extractor on wrong. Got it off with a little cursing, and messed up the PE strips. They were not gluing well, so I replaced them with plastic strips that are a little thicker. Added the small details with plastic rather than the tiny PE, and the weld down the left side. It should be ok after some paint blends it all, but what a...! After all the trouble I took to try and line up all the thermal shroud parts I discovered they didn't bother on the real tanks.

And while looking at barrels I noticed the ERA blocks on the turret nose actually have a thick metal plate on the front, so I added those. The 2 small bolts that hold the plates on will be added later.

JSSVIII
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Posted: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 03:30 PM UTC
Thanks for posting that info about the barrel Randall, I have a couple, but have not started them. It is very helpful to know some of the pitfalls beforehand.
m4sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 05:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for posting that info about the barrel Randall, I have a couple, but have not started them. It is very helpful to know some of the pitfalls beforehand.



I used the RB T-90 barrel, and the real pitfall is the complete lack of any instructions on how to assemble the barrel. I went to their web site and found nothing, but they did have pictures of the T-72 barrel assembly. After that it was me not paying attention to the details that got me into trouble. The Dish walk arounds were a huge help.

As a tip, I like using plastic details because you can apply a small amount of plastic glue to your part and it will stick to metal long enough for some superglue to be used to hold it on. If you make a mistake all you have to do is wipe off the metal part and try again. Tiny metal to other metal drives me crazy.
Grindcore
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Posted: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 07:59 PM UTC

I really wish Live Resin would get into the 125mm barrel game. An all resin barrel with clamps molded on would be worth whatever they charged.
m4sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 10:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I really wish Live Resin would get into the 125mm barrel game. An all resin barrel with clamps molded on would be worth whatever they charged.



Long thin resin barrels with the details added are tough to cast. If done in sections they can be a pain to get straight. However, if done in sections that are hollow so a length of tube can be inserted through the parts to line up the barrel from end to end, I would be very interested.

Years ago I cast up a barrel for an M60 turret conversion and used a metal tube to keep the barrels straight, so I know it can be done.
m4sherman
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Posted: Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 06:54 AM UTC
I was looking for missing turret details to add and saw I had the snorkel tube on wrong and had to use mounts borrowed from another kit after I ruined the first set. I also added wires to the lights and smoke dischargers, a few grab handles and a electrical hook up by the shell ejector port.

Still a few small parts to put on, and the grab handles on the right turret bin are poorly done and will be replaced. The antenna base is wrong, I used a T-55 type by mistake, and the kit base is too short. It is glued on very solid, but I plan on fixing it. The commanders hatch is still moveable, I might have a figure to add.

The pictures on the Dish Models side are superb, and a huge help on finding the details.

Does anyone make a T-72 barrel with no thermal shroud. I thought I saw one used, but for some reason can't find the model.

grunt136mike
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Posted: Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 09:37 AM UTC
Hi;

As for Metal Barrels there is only Two that I use, Model Point, and Magic Models !!!! And they both make metal barrels for 2a46m 125mm ! with & without the Thermo Sleeve.
IMHO the kit's barrel in most cases is fine, unless you want to use A 125mm without the sleeve. At one time, I was crazy about metal barrels, and everything I built had to have A metal barrel, but after many build's of T-72s,80s &90s the kits barrels are just fine. There have been many post's and Argument's about the search for A Accurate 125mm Barrel ! There are around Ten Different AM company's that offer AM Barrels for modern Russian tank's !! Reading the Post on the 2a46 is A Must Read !!

CHEERS; MIKE.
m4sherman
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Posted: Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 09:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi;

As for Metal Barrels there is only Two that I use, Model Point, and Magic Models !!!! And they both make metal barrels for 2a46m 125mm ! with & without the Thermo Sleeve.
IMHO the kit's barrel in most cases is fine, unless you want to use A 125mm without the sleeve. At one time, I was crazy about metal barrels, and everything I built had to have A metal barrel, but after many build's of T-72s,80s &90s the kits barrels are just fine. There have been many post's and Argument's about the search for A Accurate 125mm Barrel ! There are around Ten Different AM company's that offer AM Barrels for modern Russian tank's !! Reading the Post on the 2a46 is A Must Read !!

CHEERS; MIKE.



Thanks,

Aaaaahhh...

I looked for the post about the guns and did not see it. Seems it does not show up when you are on cold war only.

I have an idea to do a T-72 like the ones fighting in Jobar or Darayya that lost the shroud.
grunt136mike
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 04:00 AM UTC
Hi;

There have great debates on the 2a46 125mm Gun, as it has many different features. The Thermo, Sleeve after repeated discharge's tend to come Loose, and that's one reason why you can find pictures of T-72s,80s,&90s with either the sleeve missing or only half of it on the barrel, and at Different angle's on the barrel, even upside down !! Later Mks; of the 2a46 appear on vehicles of Newer types like the T-90ms, T-14, so you have to build accordingly The 2a46m6 will be hard to source, as you will have to mail order it or use the kit's Barrel !!

CHEERS; MIKE.
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 06:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi;

There have great debates on the 2a46 125mm Gun, as it has many different features. The Thermo, Sleeve after repeated discharge's tend to come Loose, and that's one reason why you can find pictures of T-72s,80s,&90s with either the sleeve missing or only half of it on the barrel, and at Different angle's on the barrel, even upside down !! Later Mks; of the 2a46 appear on vehicles of Newer types like the T-90ms, T-14, so you have to build accordingly The 2a46m6 will be hard to source, as you will have to mail order it or use the kit's Barrel !!

CHEERS; MIKE.



I had a 18 month old cutie romping around today so I had to put everything out of her reach. Can't do much with your tools locked up.

That gave me some time to go online and search for barrels. The Magic Models does the barrel for the T-72 Urals and T-72M's that has no shroud. I have plans for a T-72 Ural so I ordered one from Hobby Easy (the only US supplier was sold out) so I can check it out.

For the T-72A's there is another barrel available with no shroud, and is probably the one I would need for the T-72A with Kontact 1 added. Once I get a look at the Ural barrel I will decide on this one. Also, I think one of the tanks I was looking at has the part of the shroud replaced, and it is painted green, on a sand painted tank.
grunt136mike
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 06:46 AM UTC
Hi; Randall;

"Yes" The Shroud as you call it was easy to remove, and became loose very easily, and was one reason why Tank crews Hated it so much as they were required to secure it after each time the Gun was fired. It was also very easy to replace the entire sleeve in A very short time. When looking at 2a46s the one thing that they don't show is the drain Holes in the Bottom of the sleeve that helps displace moisture inside the sleeve. I have A Miniarm T-72 Ural turret in my collection which I also used A Magic Model Barrel without the sleeve and used A Tamiya T-72 as the doner kit which I added extra details and I also replased the glassis plate also from Miniarm to make it accurate for A early T-72 which was even earlier than the A model which has the Luna search lite on the Port side. Its A Mk; of the T-72 that you very seldom ever See !

CHEERS; MIKE.
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 09:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi; Randall;

"Yes" The Shroud as you call it was easy to remove, and became loose very easily, and was one reason why Tank crews Hated it so much as they were required to secure it after each time the Gun was fired. It was also very easy to replace the entire sleeve in A very short time. When looking at 2a46s the one thing that they don't show is the drain Holes in the Bottom of the sleeve that helps displace moisture inside the sleeve. I have A Miniarm T-72 Ural turret in my collection which I also used A Magic Model Barrel without the sleeve and used A Tamiya T-72 as the doner kit which I added extra details and I also replased the glassis plate also from Miniarm to make it accurate for A early T-72 which was even earlier than the A model which has the Luna search lite on the Port side. Its A Mk; of the T-72 that you very seldom ever See !

CHEERS; MIKE.



Mike,

How was the Miniarm glassis plate? I was looking at it but still on the fence about it. Having done a lot of casting large pieces like that worry me a bit. Large castings tend to shrink some. I've seen it used on a few tanks, but no one gave any thoughts.

If you watch the videos from Syria some of the shrouds move as the gun is fired, but that could be my lousy eyes acting up again! They need to check out the tv show The Red Green Show, and learn about duct tape. ON the RB barrels the drain holes are there, but are very small.

On some of the T-90's I was looking at the shrouds are different. Not sure how they are put on.

Tks,
Randy

After breaking away from the world of YouTube I got some work done on the turret. That guard on the front of the commanders cupola was mounted using rods welded to the cupola and fitted on like those old tent poles. I added the rods using some brass rod and small diameter brass tube.

I removed my modified antenna mount and decided to order one of the Magic Models ones. Hopefully it will be shipped soon, along with some co-ax barrels I wanted to look at.

The light on the cupola is fiddly, and I messed it up. By the time I noticed it was glued solid. I put it on as shown by the instructions, but the light is crooked on the mount, and the cable broke. In the good old days we covered things like that with the random tarp, so maybe I can cover it with a towel or map or something.

I still need a solution to the gap around the gun mantlet cover. So far no one has answered my pleas for an AM cover.

JSSVIII
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 03:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I still need a solution to the gap around the gun mantlet cover. So far no one has answered my pleas for an AM cover.



Hear hear! brass replacement fenders also please!
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 07:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


I still need a solution to the gap around the gun mantlet cover. So far no one has answered my pleas for an AM cover.



Hear hear! brass replacement fenders also please!



Did you see the front fenders in the (I think it was) Model Kasten Panther? They were pressed brass and very nice. Why not make those for the T-55's and T-72's?
seanmcandrews
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 09:27 PM UTC
John and Randy,
an option for fenders would be thin copper sheet, good sized rolls of .0035" thick can be found in any of the big box craft stores. Its advantage over, say, aluminum is that creases and wrinkles can be worked out completely. Press a piece down over the kit fender and work into the details with a sharpened wood dowel or the like.

Sean
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 09:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

John and Randy,
an option for fenders would be thin copper sheet, good sized rolls of .0035" thick can be found in any of the big box craft stores. Its advantage over, say, aluminum is that creases and wrinkles can be worked out completely. Press a piece down over the kit fender and work into the details with a sharpened wood dowel or the like.

Sean



Sean,

Thanks for the tip. That would work for the flat sections of fenders, and I'll give it a try on the beat up T-72B in the works. I've made T-34 fenders in the past using thin brass and aluminum, but I never found any good thin sheet to work with. Keep in mind that's before the internet!

It's the front curved fenders that would still be a real pain to do. I think stamped parts would sell, at least to me.
seanmcandrews
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Posted: Monday, August 07, 2017 - 11:05 PM UTC
It's actually the front curved fenders I had in mind with that technique. The kit piece acts as your embossing pattern and the copper is worked down over the details of it until it matches the contours. Trim the edges to shape and leave as is or beat up to your hearts content. Keep in mind you may have to anneal the sheet a few times during the process before you can work all the wrinkles and creases out. It's exactly how some modelers create scale thickness car bodies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGykboOB4BM

Sean

P.S.
this recent armorama thread just came to mind, same technique
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/259197#2198172