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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
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BAOR Centurions
trakpin
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 - 08:18 AM UTC
will the aussie afv club version be suitable, by leaving off certain parts? what of the instructions? thx
LeoCmdr
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 - 10:59 PM UTC
If you know which parts to add from the sprues that aren't used in the Aussie version and which parts to leave off you can create a British Army Centurion.

Mind you it will have the 20 Pounder main gun unless you swap it for an aftermarket 105 mm barrel.

However, there are no side skirts included in the kit. You can find them in PE as aftermarket items.

There are also no British Army decals in the kit and no mantlet cover.

You won't find anything in the instructions other than how to build it as an Aussie Cent.

A bit of elbow grease and taking the time to conduct research on a BAOR Centurion you want to model should give you some forward movement.
trakpin
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Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 - 11:55 PM UTC
thx. not a prob with decals, got some left over from 2 Chieftains and not worried about the gun being a 20pndr, or the bazooka plates .in looking over a number of pix, there doesn't seem to be much diff between the 2, at least that I can see
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 06:47 AM UTC
Post a pic or link of what you are considering for a BAOR Centurion and the details can be hashed out.
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 02:19 PM UTC
The Cent in all its versions was in service from 1945 to the 1990's, & some specialists, AVRE, BARV's etc may still be on roster.

Can you find a pic from the timeframe & Arm of Service for the 'genossen' to give detailed info on?

Good luck, btw
trakpin
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 04:14 PM UTC
this is one possibility. 4RTR
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9a/4b/2b/9a4b2b62611062b7e18404a682cd8b7d.jpg

I was looking at late 50s early 60s

14th/20th King's Royal Hussars, British Army of the Rhine:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/51/38/1f/51381fd40db8669d0f2c5c6102c8f8ca.jpg

there's also a plate in osprey's Centurion Tank in Battle of a Berlin Brigade 4RTR C Sqd 10 Tp
jon_a_its
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Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 06:58 PM UTC
Looks like a 20pdr barrel to me, others will be more specific.

https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?fkSECTION%5B%5D=Kits&q=Centurion+cent* Scalemates will give you a good rundown of what's available

https://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/afvclub/afv35100.htm PMMS build review.

More Info: https://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/afvclub/ag35018.html
LeoCmdr
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 07:28 PM UTC
With the pics you posted you can use the Aussie Mk.5/1 kit to create your BAOR Centurion Mk.5.

The barrel is the 20 Pounder 'B' Type barrel.

The extended front fenders shown on the Cents in the images are not included in the kit.
zedhol
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 08:06 PM UTC
I have the AFV Club kit and I have two 105mm barrels, and will probably only use one...

Let me know if you want the other.
trakpin
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2017 - 03:19 AM UTC
this particular kit has the 20pdr, which is what I was looking for, but thx anyway o the guns. might still get one if the kit gun isn't up to it. not sure what I'll do about the fenders. maybe just leave them off altogether
trakpin
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2017 - 05:06 PM UTC
seeing as how the oz version uses reinforced track guards, will the type not used in the Sho't kal kit be suitable, or are they also the reinforced type? they're parts H1/26. may be a few other parts can be salvaged. also what was the reference to extended fenders? I was thinking on building it up in a combat situation, as tho they'd been lost/removed, and same for the side armor
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2017 - 09:42 PM UTC
Do you mean fenders when you refer to reinforced tracks guards?

If you look at the part sprues and/or instructions for the Aussie Mk.5/1 kit you will see the standard Centurion front and rear fenders are included.

Eduard, Accurate Armour, and Voyager all market PE side skirts that are an easy solution.
trakpin
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 12:08 AM UTC
nope, it's how the front fenders come down over the tracks. there're some pix where they aren't that low

was also wondering how common was it that some had no headlights and if there were many using the B barrel
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 05:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

nope, it's how the front fenders come down over the tracks. there're some pix where they aren't that low

was also wondering how common was it that some had no headlights and if there were many using the B barrel



That's because in some cases the fender extensions have not been attached...likely just the standard front fender.

The glacis plate configuration could vary from tank to tank...spare tracks, driver's windscreen box, night driving lights, or actual headlights and guards. The two pics you posted have different glacis plate layouts. It depended on the modifications done at the time.

The A and B type barrels could be seen intermixed on tanks within the same Regiment, Squadron, or Troop. The B Type simply had the fume extractor.

Remember for the timeline you said you wanted to depict...the 105 L7 was replacing the 20 Pounders on the Centurions by 1959-1961ish.
trakpin
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 04:06 PM UTC
thx. appreciate the input. I'm thinking how things woulda been had NATO intervened in the Hungarian Uprising

not sure how accurate this is: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjzzvWBop_VAhVFID4KHTfHD8wQFghbMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.militaryfactory.com%2Farmor%2Fdetail.asp%3Farmor_id%3D13&usg=AFQjCNFJPqOIXQ6n0xkAZkpbILnJsrvUAw but under Centurion variants it gives a list of mods
Keef1648
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 06:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

nope, it's how the front fenders come down over the tracks. there're some pix where they aren't that low

was also wondering how common was it that some had no headlights and if there were many using the B barrel



That's because in some cases the fender extensions have not been attached...likely just the standard front fender.

The glacis plate configuration could vary from tank to tank...spare tracks, driver's windscreen box, night driving lights, or actual headlights and guards. The two pics you posted have different glacis plate layouts. It depended on the modifications done at the time.

The A and B type barrels could be seen intermixed on tanks within the same Regiment, Squadron, or Troop. The B Type simply had the fume extractor.

Remember for the timeline you said you wanted to depict...the 105 L7 was replacing the 20 Pounders on the Centurions by 1959-1961ish.



Some 20 pounders were still in service and being used at the RAC. center Bovington and the Gunnery School in Lulworth as late as early 1966.

My first live firing experience was firing and loading 20 pounders. Before our course ended we moved to 105mm gun tanks.

Chieftains were seen but they were on different firing points.


Keith..
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 07:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

nope, it's how the front fenders come down over the tracks. there're some pix where they aren't that low

was also wondering how common was it that some had no headlights and if there were many using the B barrel



That's because in some cases the fender extensions have not been attached...likely just the standard front fender.

The glacis plate configuration could vary from tank to tank...spare tracks, driver's windscreen box, night driving lights, or actual headlights and guards. The two pics you posted have different glacis plate layouts. It depended on the modifications done at the time.

The A and B type barrels could be seen intermixed on tanks within the same Regiment, Squadron, or Troop. The B Type simply had the fume extractor.

Remember for the timeline you said you wanted to depict...the 105 L7 was replacing the 20 Pounders on the Centurions by 1959-1961ish.



Some 20 pounders were still in service and being used at the RAC. center Bovington and the Gunnery School in Lulworth as late as early 1966.

My first live firing experience was firing and loading 20 pounders. Before our course ended we moved to 105mm gun tanks.

Chieftains were seen but they were on different firing points.


Keith..



Great first hand info. Almost all Canadian Centurions based in Canada retained the 20 Pounders until leaving service in the early 1970s.
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 07:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

thx. appreciate the input. I'm thinking how things woulda been had NATO intervened in the Hungarian Uprising

not sure how accurate this is: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjzzvWBop_VAhVFID4KHTfHD8wQFghbMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.militaryfactory.com%2Farmor%2Fdetail.asp%3Farmor_id%3D13&usg=AFQjCNFJPqOIXQ6n0xkAZkpbILnJsrvUAw but under Centurion variants it gives a list of mods



Ah, a "what if"...skies the limit then for what you want it to be.

The modification timeline list is accurate and can be found in publications and on a variety of web pages.
trakpin
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 - 09:24 PM UTC
what year was the 105 adopted? been thinking on taking up zedhols offer. question is, will said gun fit a 20pdr mantlet without TOO much enlarging of the hole
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 05:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

what year was the 105 adopted?



About 1959/1960.
trakpin
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 03:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have the AFV Club kit and I have two 105mm barrels, and will probably only use one...

Let me know if you want the other.



still wanna part with that gun?
Keef1648
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 04:57 PM UTC
Anyone familiar with both the 20pdr. and 105mm. Centurion gun breech will know all about these two items, the >

'Phosphor Bronze Crosshead' and the very small but most important, 'Screw Retaining Intermediate Firing Needle Withdrawal Lever'.


Have a great day.

Keith.
trakpin
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Posted: Friday, July 28, 2017 - 02:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Anyone familiar with both the 20pdr. and 105mm. Centurion gun breech will know all about these two items, the >

'Phosphor Bronze Crosshead' and the very small but most important, 'Screw Retaining Intermediate Firing Needle Withdrawal Lever'.


Have a great day.

Keith.



and that'll keep the 105 from fitting the 20pdr mantlet?
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Friday, July 28, 2017 - 04:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Anyone familiar with both the 20pdr. and 105mm. Centurion gun breech will know all about these two items, the >

'Phosphor Bronze Crosshead' and the very small but most important, 'Screw Retaining Intermediate Firing Needle Withdrawal Lever'.


Have a great day.

Keith.



and that'll keep the 105 from fitting the 20pdr mantlet?



No, but it makes a difference on an actual real Centurion tank young grasshopper.

There is no difference in the mantlet whether you use the 20 Pounder gun or the 105 mm gun...on the real tank or in 1/35.
trakpin
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Friday, July 28, 2017 - 04:23 PM UTC
hmmm...., me thinx I'll stick with the 20 after all. sorry zedhol
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