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For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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Fool's Gold Abrams
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,050 posts
Armorama: 7,999 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 06:39 AM GMT+7
Bill Cross tells the story of the AMPS and ArmorCon Abrams that won (and didn''t win) a Gold Medal.

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If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Jack_Turmoil
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Michigan, United States
Joined: February 09, 2016
KitMaker: 57 posts
Armorama: 56 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 08:41 AM GMT+7
Great story and great build!
clovis899
#155
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California, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 09:56 AM GMT+7
Bill,
Great build and an even better story! At least you and George and the rest of the judging team know it's a gold medal build, kind of like a perfectly built and weathered engine inside a closed up hood!
Cheers,
Rick
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 2,470 posts
Armorama: 2,195 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 10:35 AM GMT+7
How much rebuild is needed to qualify as a "new" model ? / Robin
ivanhoe6
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 1,292 posts
Armorama: 795 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 10:30 PM GMT+7
Congratulations Bill ! You know in your heart that you had the best Abrams there and that's what counts!
Build questions : What did you use for anti-slip ? And, are you going to put in a diorama in the future ?
Thanks for sharing with us!
Taeuss
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Manitoba, Canada
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,275 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 01:11 AM GMT+7
Enjoyed the story and your Abrams is Gold quality indeed!
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,556 posts
Armorama: 7,394 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 05:01 AM GMT+7
Thanks, Darren, and all of you for your compliments. The best one I received so far was from a Gulf Vet who said I must've served or used very good references. Made my day. Specific questions:

Robin, I'm strictly press-ganged into judging and don't know the rules very well. Perhaps Georg will jump into this thread?

Ivanhoe, I believe I used fine-grain sand over glue for the anti-skid, but may have used some of Tamiya's granular paint (which I did use on the Buffalo mine plow I'm building now). As for dioramas, I'm generally disappointed in the way dios are scored at competitions and may not enter mine in the future. I'm still evaluating.
TheGreatPumpkin
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: April 20, 2009
KitMaker: 638 posts
Armorama: 623 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 12:05 PM GMT+7
Hi All,
Sad but true, this is a rule for most AMPS shows. BUT being that next year's International will be at the beginning of May, rather than early/mid April, we are considering dropping that requirement next year. Stay tuned and I'll keep you posted.
Regards,
Georg
fhvn4d
#159
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 774 posts
Armorama: 534 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 01:57 PM GMT+7
Its kind of funny ironic that this happened Bill.... I had brought a kit to the Amps nats in CT hoping to medal with it because I spent ALOT of time doing improvements. It didnt even get bronze. The kicker was that the table judging it was next to mine, and the ACJ spent an unusually long time explaining some things to the table about how they had gigged me so much that I missed even bronze by one point. When I reviewed the judging sheets ( I value this more than the medal itself!) I was left with a little disappointment because the scores were very low, but lacked alot of comments. Comments are what makes AMPS well, AMPS. Its how we all improve. FORTUNATELY for me, it didnt get a medal at the Nats...... so I was able to bring it back and improve it greatly..... and hopefully in OH it will see something shinny.... or good comments that I can continue to improve my building with !
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,556 posts
Armorama: 7,394 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2017 - 02:41 AM GMT+7
Georg and I spoke by phone last night, and I don't think I'm talking out of class when I say that the goal of the judging and comments should be to help modelers improve. As the old saying goes, "you learn by your mistakes, not your successes." I took the comments about my tank seriously and fixed the problems. Clearly the results speak for themselves. So shouldn't the rules allow for an entry to move UP in the judging if it has been reworked? Isn't that the goal of the judging: to help us improve? Why can't we then be rewarded for making those improvements, rather than have to start over with a completely different model?
fhvn4d
#159
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 774 posts
Armorama: 534 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2017 - 05:58 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Georg and I spoke by phone last night, and I don't think I'm talking out of class when I say that the goal of the judging and comments should be to help modelers improve. As the old saying goes, "you learn by your mistakes, not your successes." I took the comments about my tank seriously and fixed the problems. Clearly the results speak for themselves. So shouldn't the rules allow for an entry to move UP in the judging if it has been reworked? Isn't that the goal of the judging: to help us improve? Why can't we then be rewarded for making those improvements, rather than have to start over with a completely different model?



You bring up a really interesting point. I think the general fear would be that the same models would be winning the same categories all the time, and the INTENT was to try and prevent the same model from winning the same category. In execution though, your point is super valid in that a bronze at the nats could be worked on twice more till it made gold..... certainly something for the powers that be to chew on a little bit and try to weigh the risk/benefits of making a change. Like Georg said, stay tuned I guess!
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 2,470 posts
Armorama: 2,195 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2017 - 08:53 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Georg and I spoke by phone last night, and I don't think I'm talking out of class when I say that the goal of the judging and comments should be to help modelers improve. As the old saying goes, "you learn by your mistakes, not your successes." I took the comments about my tank seriously and fixed the problems. Clearly the results speak for themselves. So shouldn't the rules allow for an entry to move UP in the judging if it has been reworked? Isn't that the goal of the judging: to help us improve? Why can't we then be rewarded for making those improvements, rather than have to start over with a completely different model?



You bring up a really interesting point. I think the general fear would be that the same models would be winning the same categories all the time, and the INTENT was to try and prevent the same model from winning the same category. In execution though, your point is super valid in that a bronze at the nats could be worked on twice more till it made gold..... certainly something for the powers that be to chew on a little bit and try to weigh the risk/benefits of making a change. Like Georg said, stay tuned I guess!



A rather simple rule could be that Gold awards disqualify a model from entering into further contests.
Additional rule could be that a model which gets the same denomination of award twice is disqualified (due to "no improvement") from entering a third time.

You get a second chance, take it and improve or enter a new model the next time.

Is there any rule about a non awarded model entering again?
If there isn't such a rule there could still be a largish group of models showing up at every contest.
I would assume that most modelers would like to show off their latest masterpiece instead of dragging the same sorry heap of plastic to show after show so the need for such a rule should be minimal.

/ Robin
TheGreatPumpkin
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: April 20, 2009
KitMaker: 638 posts
Armorama: 623 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2017 - 10:08 AM GMT+7
Guys, I'll take this up for discussion with the powers that be. Stay tuned!
j76lr
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 711 posts
Armorama: 705 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 01:23 AM GMT+7
looks great !!