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Aber barrel question
KruppCake
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 01:57 AM UTC
Hello all,

would anyone happen to have any idea how to correctly align the muzzle brake on the Aber Pak 43/1 L/71 barrel? It's designed for a Dragon kit and the breach end of the barrel is specifically cut for the kit (not just round), so the alignment into the plastic breach can go only one way.

This is the only example so far I've run into where you have to fit the barrel in and then align the muzzle brake rather than assemble the entire barrel first and then align it with the vehicle.
Wierdy
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 02:50 AM UTC
Enlarge/drill out the styrene part so that the opening had circular shape, put/superglue a sleeve (styrene cylinder?) onto your aluminium barrel tip, assemble the barrel and insert it into your drilled-out styrene piece. If the sleeve is tight enough, it would provide friction fit between the parts so that you could slowly revolve it until it is in desired position.
KruppCake
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 03:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Enlarge/drill out the styrene part so that the opening had circular shape, put/superglue a sleeve (styrene cylinder?) onto your aluminium barrel tip, assemble the barrel and insert it into your drilled-out styrene piece. If the sleeve is tight enough, it would provide friction fit between the parts so that you could slowly revolve it until it is in desired position.



Hi Paul,

Thank you for your reply! I think this is basically what I will have to do. I'm just confused why Aber bothered making the barrel end specific for a dragon kit when there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to get the alignment correct.

Maybe something is missing? I haven't had any other kit barrels be this complicated.
Wierdy
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 04:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm just confused why Aber bothered making the barrel end specific for a dragon kit when there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to get the alignment correct.


See, they have two variations in their barrel range: older ones have smooth tip, newer ones are threaded to eliminate the use of CA glue as your barrel and muzzle brake screw together. Some older/smooth-tipped barrels are upgraded to have that, now common, threaded tip. They designate them by adding an 'n' to the set number they have in their catalogue (35-L76n) to denote new generation. Sometimes they also change parts breakdown of a muzzle brake and/or the barrel itself while the other side of it remains unaltered. All in all, they try to achieve the most straightforward assembly&installation process possible. Clearly, they do it in steps as their craftsmanship and equipment become more advanced.
Just a few examples:
https://www.google.com.ua/search?q=aber+tiger+i+gun+barrel+l76n&client=tablet-android-lenovo&prmd=ivmn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqiLnb_9DYAhXHLFAKHf5EAXkQ_AUIESgB&biw=1024&bih=600
KruppCake
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 09:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm just confused why Aber bothered making the barrel end specific for a dragon kit when there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to get the alignment correct.


See, they have two variations in their barrel range: older ones have smooth tip, newer ones are threaded to eliminate the use of CA glue as your barrel and muzzle brake screw together. Some older/smooth-tipped barrels are upgraded to have that, now common, threaded tip. They designate them by adding an 'n' to the set number they have in their catalogue (35-L76n) to denote new generation. Sometimes they also change parts breakdown of a muzzle brake and/or the barrel itself while the other side of it remains unaltered. All in all, they try to achieve the most straightforward assembly&installation process possible. Clearly, they do it in steps as their craftsmanship and equipment become more advanced.
Just a few examples:
https://www.google.com.ua/search?q=aber+tiger+i+gun+barrel+l76n&client=tablet-android-lenovo&prmd=ivmn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqiLnb_9DYAhXHLFAKHf5EAXkQ_AUIESgB&biw=1024&bih=600



This particular Pak 43 barrel has notches on the buttom side of the barrel where it rests on the gun carriage. Because of this, the muzzle brake has to be aligned to the barrel rather than the barrel to the vehicle. I still have to figure out how to do that.
smorko
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 10:57 AM UTC
The easiest way ro do it is to take a cocktail stick/toothpick and push it through the muzzle brake holes sideways. Then when aligning the muzzle brake just make sure the cocktail stick is horizontal. Saw that in a youtube video
KruppCake
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 06:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The easiest way ro do it is to take a cocktail stick/toothpick and push it through the muzzle brake holes sideways. Then when aligning the muzzle brake just make sure the cocktail stick is horizontal. Saw that in a youtube video



Zdravo,

Yes, thatís exactly what Iíve been doing for Tigers I and II, but in the case of this particular barrel, the end of the barrel that goes into the breach is not round, but has a notch in it which is supposed to fit specifically into the dragon kit. There are also grooves on the undersides of the barrel which make the barrel sit only one way in the gun cradle, meaning the only way to align the muzzle brake is to somehow align only the muzzle brake, and not rotate the entire barrel. Does this make sense? Itís the only barrel Iíve seen so far with this set up and itís a headache.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 07:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The easiest way ro do it is to take a cocktail stick/toothpick and push it through the muzzle brake holes sideways. Then when aligning the muzzle brake just make sure the cocktail stick is horizontal. Saw that in a youtube video



Work process in steps:
1. Assemble barrel and breach (without the muzzle brake)

2. Let the glue dry/harden

3. Assemble as much of the rest of the kit as needed to make sure you have a definite position for the breach and gun barrel.

4. Get a straight stick which is sufficiently thick to get a fit which is not loose in the side openings of the muzzle brake. You don't want it so tight as to have to use force to get it into the holes in the side. Test first, before step 6

5. Set the barrel, breach and whatever else that the breach is attached to on a level surface. Basically a tank or anti tank gun in ready to fire position on a horizontal battlefield. "Gefreiter Schmidt, where ze hell is ze muzzle brake!?".

6. Push the muzzle brake onto the barrel, or screw it on if you have one of the threaded ones.

7. Push the stick through the side openings, from the left or from the right doesn't matter.

8. Adjust the muzzle brake until the stick is horizontal. Check that the mountng (tank or gun carriage) is still horizontal.

9. Apply glue to glue the muzzle brake onto the barrel.

If the end of the barrel that goes into the hole in the breach had been circular then the process is to assemble barrel and muzzle brake first.

5. Set the mounting, tank or anti-tank gun carriage on a horizontal surface. See step 5 above.

6. Push the straight stick through the muzzle brake, left to right or right to left

7. Push the barrel into the circular hole in the breach

8. Adjust until stick is horizontal while making sure that the mounting is also level

9. Glue

The stick is used to allow you to "see" the position of the side holes on the muzzle brake while looking into the barrel from the front or "business" end. If the stick is not horizontal it means that the side openings are not level with each other. The length of the stick also "amplifies" any levelling faults and make them easier to see. If the stick looks level you will not be able to see any levelling faults on the bare muzzle brake.
If you are unsure you can measure the distance between the "battlefield" and the ends of the stick or you can put the ends of the stick on blocks of equal height.

The tricky part will be to get the glue into the gap between the barrel and the muzzle brake ...
/ Robin
KruppCake
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 07:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The easiest way ro do it is to take a cocktail stick/toothpick and push it through the muzzle brake holes sideways. Then when aligning the muzzle brake just make sure the cocktail stick is horizontal. Saw that in a youtube video



Work process in steps:
1. Assemble barrel and breach (without the muzzle brake)

2. Let the glue dry/harden

3. Assemble as much of the rest of the kit as needed to make sure you have a definite position for the breach and gun barrel.

4. Get a straight stick which is sufficiently thick to get a fit which is not loose in the side openings of the muzzle brake. You don't want it so tight as to have to use force to get it into the holes in the side. Test first, before step 6

5. Set the barrel, breach and whatever else that the breach is attached to on a level surface. Basically a tank or anti tank gun in ready to fire position on a horizontal battlefield. "Gefreiter Schmidt, where ze hell is ze muzzle brake!?".

6. Push the muzzle brake onto the barrel, or screw it on if you have one of the threaded ones.

7. Push the stick through the side openings, from the left or from the right doesn't matter.

8. Adjust the muzzle brake until the stick is horizontal. Check that the mountng (tank or gun carriage) is still horizontal.

9. Apply glue to glue the muzzle brake onto the barrel.

If the end of the barrel that goes into the hole in the breach had been circular then the process is to assemble barrel and muzzle brake first.

5. Set the mounting, tank or anti-tank gun carriage on a horizontal surface. See step 5 above.

6. Push the straight stick through the muzzle brake, left to right or right to left

7. Push the barrel into the circular hole in the breach

8. Adjust until stick is horizontal while making sure that the mounting is also level

9. Glue

The stick is used to allow you to "see" the position of the side holes on the muzzle brake while looking into the barrel from the front or "business" end. If the stick is not horizontal it means that the side openings are not level with each other. The length of the stick also "amplifies" any levelling faults and make them easier to see. If the stick looks level you will not be able to see any levelling faults on the bare muzzle brake.
If you are unsure you can measure the distance between the "battlefield" and the ends of the stick or you can put the ends of the stick on blocks of equal height.

The tricky part will be to get the glue into the gap between the barrel and the muzzle brake ...
/ Robin



Hi Robin,

Thank you for your thorough explanation, that's actually quite helpful in general! Here are pics below of what I'm referring to about this specific barrel:

Back end has a notch which goes only one way into the kit:



It's essentially a 3-piece barrel (2 + MB), which adds to muzzle brake alignment complexity



The under side of the barrel has notches which fit into the holders, so the entire barrel cannot be rotated, hence only the muzzle brake must somehow be aligned:



So what I'm essentially struggling to do is figure out a way to completely fit the barrel into the kit and then afterwards get the thread position correct so that the muzzle brake is 100% aligned.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 02:03 AM UTC
Don't worry about the threads.
Get the section closest to the breach in position first, before worrying about the other bits.
Is the brass ring behind the muzzle brake fixed to the barrel or can it move/slide a little along the barrel? If it can slide there is no problem. If it is fixed then some "creative thinking" will be needed.

What you could do right now is to screw the parts together and check how the muzzle brake aligns when tightened.
A nut doesn't move very far lengthwise if it is turned 179 degrees, the greatest possible angle needed to align a two sided symmetrical nut on a thread.
Tighten it up and check (using stick as describe before) to check if the muzzle brake is horizontal when compared to the notches in the thick part. If it does there is no problem.
If it is almost there and could need another eighth of a turn then some fine grit sand paper on the back of the muzzle brake might solve the problem.
The other option is to un-tighten the muzzle brake slightly less than half a turn (less than 180 degrees) to get it in the "previous" level position. Check the width of the gap.
The threading looks like a fine thread so the lengthwise movement, thread pitch, for half a turn should be small.
Maybe that gap will be just large enough to pour some CA into. Some of the needed rotation could also be handled by un-tightening the outer from the inner barrel section.
/ Robin
KruppCake
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 07:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't worry about the threads.
Get the section closest to the breach in position first, before worrying about the other bits.
Is the brass ring behind the muzzle brake fixed to the barrel or can it move/slide a little along the barrel? If it can slide there is no problem. If it is fixed then some "creative thinking" will be needed.

What you could do right now is to screw the parts together and check how the muzzle brake aligns when tightened.
A nut doesn't move very far lengthwise if it is turned 179 degrees, the greatest possible angle needed to align a two sided symmetrical nut on a thread.
Tighten it up and check (using stick as describe before) to check if the muzzle brake is horizontal when compared to the notches in the thick part. If it does there is no problem.
If it is almost there and could need another eighth of a turn then some fine grit sand paper on the back of the muzzle brake might solve the problem.
The other option is to un-tighten the muzzle brake slightly less than half a turn (less than 180 degrees) to get it in the "previous" level position. Check the width of the gap.
The threading looks like a fine thread so the lengthwise movement, thread pitch, for half a turn should be small.
Maybe that gap will be just large enough to pour some CA into. Some of the needed rotation could also be handled by un-tightening the outer from the inner barrel section.
/ Robin



Hi Robin,

Your solution is spot on. Initially I was trying to start the screwing on of the muzzle brake at a certain point thinking that once the turning is complete, it would be close to aligned, without realizing that the screw will start at exactly the same point no matter how you initially set it. Iíve done what you suggested and it seems that if I remove the brass washer thatís in-between the back of the muzzle brake and the conical brass piece that screws onto the front end of the barrel first, the muzzle brake can be aligned with a little tightening. However, with the washer in place where itís supposed to be, the alignment is completely off and no amount of tightening will set it right. Thank you again for taking your time to understand the problem and provide a solution!

At this stage, Iím not sure whether to sacrifice a little accuracy and leave the metal washer off or sand down the conical brass piece with 800 grit so I can use the metal washer.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 02:57 PM UTC
Washer or no washer ....
Life is full of critical decisions

/ Robin
KruppCake
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 07:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Washer or no washer ....
Life is full of critical decisions

/ Robin



I was just kidding. Of course accuracy comes first