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Dragon 1/35 M60 Hull corrections
gloucesternige
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2012
KitMaker: 303 posts
Armorama: 279 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 11:00 PM UTC
Hi all,

I wanted to build an IDF M60 so went and bought the Dragon M60 with ERA for a great price.. then.. I read the horror stories about the hull and gun barrel..

I have ordered the M68 wrapped gun barrel from BNA in Australia and have decided to correct the hull myself.

Please take a look at the pics below and let me know if I have done the correction in a suitable fashion?

I have used plastic card, superglue, Tamiya filler and Mr surfacer 1000 to get here. I now need to add the texture once you guys tell me the shape is OK?





I am aware I need to move the return roller positions to get the hull right.

All advice will be gratefully received.

EDIT!!! You'll see here that I cut away the forward part of the Dragon supplied mess that they call the idler mount. As it turns out the Dragon idler mount is 4mm too far back, so dont do as I have done, rather cut away the rear of the elongated mess and hey presto, you have the correct idler position.

It kinda looks like Dragon began to move the idler forward then realised they would need to remake the front ilder mech/shock mounts and supply slightly longer tracks. I'll bet someone in accounts said, "Hey, stop spending money on correcting this kit and just give the modeller a box of crap"?
gloucesternige
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:36 AM UTC
Please guys, comment on my reshaping. Over 200 views now and not a single reply.. we are all interested to comment on what a kit maker gets wrong, but when someone puts it right.. silence??
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:45 AM UTC
I don't have the necessary expert knowledge to provide anything useful .....
I would guess that most of viewers are in a similar situation.
Maybe a comparison with an M60 hull by AFV-Club could help?
/ Robin
HeavyArty
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 04:59 AM UTC
^^Ditto to what Robin said.^^
gloucesternige
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

^^Ditto to what Robin said.^^



Thanks guys, I realise that not everyone knows the M60 inside out, but was kinda hoping "someone" would?

I have copied the AFV club hull from pics on Britmodeller but i dont know if AFV are 100%?

I guess I should just build it and stop being so rivet counter like???
gloucesternige
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't have the necessary expert knowledge to provide anything useful .....
I would guess that most of viewers are in a similar situation.
Maybe a comparison with an M60 hull by AFV-Club could help?
/ Robin



Thanks Robin.. that's just what I've done. Just hope AFV is correct?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't have the necessary expert knowledge to provide anything useful .....
I would guess that most of viewers are in a similar situation.
Maybe a comparison with an M60 hull by AFV-Club could help?
/ Robin



Thanks Robin.. that's just what I've done. Just hope AFV is correct?



It is definitely more correct than Dragons attempt
/ Robin
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I guess I should just build it and stop being so rivet counter like???


It is not rivet counting, it is "because you know it is there". You know the kit mistakes and that makes you want to correct them. It is a little voice at the back of your head saying, do not leave it like that, correct it, align it, add some detail even if none will notice.

I have two DML M60 kits. I thought that correcting the hull was like flogging a dead horse but you proved me wrong. Well done, it looks far better than the original.

I took some measurments on the AFV Club hull for you:

gloucesternige
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 11:00 PM UTC
Thanks for your kind words Nikos. All my dimensions seem to nearly match the AFV kit measurements you have supplied.

The 18mm is not achievable so I guess the slope of the front armour is incorrect on one of the kits? Mine is 17.3mm. I am about 2mm short on the 36mm dimension and mine tapers in slightly so I may add some material there?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer me.
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 11:12 PM UTC
Nigel, I measured 36mm from the middle of the wheel base, not the edge of it, so your 34 is just fine, I misplaced the indication line, sorry.

Do you need any other measurments?
gloucesternige
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 12:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nigel, I measured 36mm from the middle of the wheel base, not the edge of it, so your 34 is just fine, I misplaced the indication line, sorry.

Do you need any other measurments?



Great!! Well, this proves the Dragon hull can be corrected, at least as correctly as the AFV kit.

I have purchased the OrangeHobby Barrel and can confirm the turret end is horter than the Dragon kit so some surgery will be needed there. I also have the Wolfpack track links to go on so this should end up a good looking model?
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 01:13 AM UTC
Wolfpack or Def? I guess they are the same. If you want to use Merkava tracks you are doing a Magach 6M. You will need to enlarge the turret basket.

Does your barrel have a thermal sleeve?
gloucesternige
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 04:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wolfpack or Def? I guess they are the same. If you want to use Merkava tracks you are doing a Magach 6M. You will need to enlarge the turret basket.

Does your barrel have a thermal sleeve?



Wolfpack and Def, both names on one box? Part number WP12001

Yeah, barrel has thermal sleeve.. with PE bands and clamps. Maybe the larger turret basket is in the kit? There are a million spare parts on the sprues?
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 02:14 PM UTC


Nope there are no parts supplied for the basket in the kit. Only Legend has them in their magach 6M set.

You will need new smoke launchers too. They are completely wrong.
gloucesternige
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 03:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Nope there are no parts supplied for the basket in the kit. Only Legend has them in their magach 6M set.

You will need new smoke launchers too. They are completely wrong.



OMG!! I really dont want to pay 70 for a kit that I only need the basket from?? What are my options if I dont buy the set? I really dont want to use the rubber tracks but i really want to build a steel tracked IDF M60 with ERA.
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 03:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text



OMG!! I really dont want to pay 70 for a kit that I only need the basket from?? What are my options if I dont buy the set? I really dont want to use the rubber tracks but i really want to build a steel tracked IDF M60 with ERA.



I will post the dimensions and photos of the parts, perhaps you can build them?
rfbaer
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Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 - 07:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



OMG!! I really dont want to pay 70 for a kit that I only need the basket from?? What are my options if I dont buy the set? I really dont want to use the rubber tracks but i really want to build a steel tracked IDF M60 with ERA.



I will post the dimensions and photos of the parts, perhaps you can build them?



I would be interested in that, as I recently picked up the Takom M48H, just for the hull, and realized it's got a lot of pieces already, such as a nice Urdan cupola, that would be a good start towards building a Magach.
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 - 08:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I would be interested in that, as I recently picked up the Takom M48H, just for the hull, and realized it's got a lot of pieces already, such as a nice Urdan cupola, that would be a good start towards building a Magach.



You can use the Takom hull to do a Magach 6B, 6B Gal, 6C, but not a Magach 6M or 6R.
gloucesternige
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Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 - 10:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


I would be interested in that, as I recently picked up the Takom M48H, just for the hull, and realized it's got a lot of pieces already, such as a nice Urdan cupola, that would be a good start towards building a Magach.



You can use the Takom hull to do a Magach 6B, 6B Gal, 6C, but not a Magach 6M or 6R.



Yeah, isnt the Dragon Magach 3 pretty accurate?
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 - 11:30 PM UTC
This is the Magach 6M basket:






gloucesternige
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Posted: Saturday, March 17, 2018 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is the Magach 6M basket:









Thanks for that!!

I'm sure I've got some old lolipop sticks and double sided tape somewhere? I can knock one of thopse up in a few minutes

Seriously.. I reckon I can extend the kit basket to make that one?
rfbaer
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Posted: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 - 04:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


I would be interested in that, as I recently picked up the Takom M48H, just for the hull, and realized it's got a lot of pieces already, such as a nice Urdan cupola, that would be a good start towards building a Magach.



You can use the Takom hull to do a Magach 6B, 6B Gal, 6C, but not a Magach 6M or 6R.



With a little surgery I would have a good start on one.
2-32sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 - 02:58 PM UTC
Dear Apprentice Rivet counter,

you are absolutely right, but the biggest fault is the fact that the idler wheel has to be moved forward!!!!

Do you have one of the AFV Club M60 kits?

Compare them and it it falls from your eyes like scales!!!

The idler wheel has do be moved more than 4 MM forward!

That's a main issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again one of DRAGON's "outstanding" BLACK LABEL kits!!!!!!!!!!

Shouldn't it be better called "BLACK LABEL [auto-censored]"!

Conqueror Mk 2, MBT 70, Saladin Armoured Car! You name it, they got it! Dimension issues, detail isues! Yeah, I know DRAGON modern and Cold War kits are the "BEST"!

My approach, I'll use an AFV Club M60A1 hull and I'll add the DEF Models M60 plain turret! The DEF conversion kit has as bonus the AFV Club T97E2 track! The T-bar must be exchanged for an M48A2 steering wheel; - the second forward shock must be deleted and the first return roller moved forward! If anybody needs the drawings for the correction of the AFV Club hull, then contact me.

MAYBE, really maybe, I'll correct the DRAGON BLACK LABEL M60 once and will move the idler wheel forward!

Best regards

"Hank"
Hauke
gloucesternige
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Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 05:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dear Apprentice Rivet counter,

you are absolutely right, but the biggest fault is the fact that the idler wheel has to be moved forward!!!!

Do you have one of the AFV Club M60 kits?

Compare them and it it falls from your eyes like scales!!!

The idler wheel has do be moved more than 4 MM forward!

That's a main issue!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best regards

"Hank"
Hauke



Thanks for your great advice there.. wasn't aware the idler wheel needed to go forward 4mm!! I'm still at the stage I can do this, but wish I'd known before I cut away the rediculous Dragon moulding which looks nothing like the real casting. I also think the return rollers need to go forward?

I don't have an AFV M60, kinda wish I did now!! I would love some drawings though??

So, just to clarify.. the idler wheel needs to forward exactly how much, and is it the same for both sides?
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 06:42 PM UTC
Hank-
All good info, thanks. I'll stick with the Takom hull to do the M60, seems like moving the first idler and deleting the second shock would be easier. I do have the Dragon M60 in the stash, using it for the turret and small parts only.