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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Panther A Zimmerit pattern in Italy
hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 49 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 - 10:49 AM UTC
Hi Everyone

Does anyone know what Zimmerit pattern used on Panther A fighting in early 1944 Italy?

I found a number of vertical columns of horizontal ridges.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/panther-number-two-t289057-s10.html#p1516119

Does anyone know if they ever used "waffle" pattern applied by Daimler facility?
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 2,901 posts
Armorama: 2,732 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 04:05 AM UTC
James L.;

Probably the surest way to get a real and verifiable answer to your Q is to search pics of Panthers in Italy.

Panthers came from multiple assembly plants, and, unless all of the Panthers seen in any given time-period came from only one plant, likely there could have been examples with different zimm patterns. It seems more likely that the earlier one goes in Panther-in-Italy history, the more likely it is to get exactly one zimm pattern for all present in theater.

But bear in mind other complications to the question: Were all Panthers in Italy shipped as "new"? If not, then they could have arrived from other units wearing some different zimm pattern. Were any of the Panthers in Italy "refurbs" - such as survivors of some action sent to Nibelungenwerke for rebuilding (and zimm application)? Recall that Panther A only started coming off the line in Aug 1943... But any recovered damaged Panther A sent there in later 1943 could have gone on to Italy after refurbishment. In which case, it would wear the "Nibelungenwerke" "patterns".

Note that the Panther was present in central and southern Italy from early 1944 (Pz. Regt 4) - from Jan '44 - with a mix of D (refurbed) and A (some newer, some refurbs). First Allied "Panther kill" by a tank only in May 1944. So probably almost all pics claiming Panthers in Italy were 1944+ pics.

Just food for thought! I suggest go search for Panther in Italy pics and study the apparent zimm patterns.

Cheers! Bob
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 944 posts
Armorama: 931 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 04:14 AM UTC
The most common Panthers (Pz Reg 4) were early models (with the letterbox hull mg flap), and small square pattern zimm.





This is fairly easy to make yourself.

Echelon details makes a nice decal set for these.
d111298pw
#456
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Delhi, India / भारत
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 551 posts
Armorama: 535 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 05:29 AM UTC
The zimmerit pattern was unique to each factory. Each one applied it differently. Theater of operation had nothing to do with the pattern.

The tanks in the above pictures were both produced by M.A.N.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 944 posts
Armorama: 931 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 08:03 AM UTC
Mark,

Pz Reg 4 was the only unit with Panthers in Italy. Most of these had the small square pattern, which according to "Panther: external appearance and design changes", was used by Daimler-Benz and M.N.H.




hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 49 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2019 - 01:45 AM UTC
Many thanks Marc, I did not know the 2nd photo in your post is for a Panther in Italy. I came across the same photo in Pinterest, but the photo was incorrectly captioned as in Western Europe!
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 1,787 posts
Armorama: 1,546 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2019 - 02:14 AM UTC
There are quite a few incorrectly labeled pics on Pinterest. It's not really a historical site.
Scarred
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,095 posts
Armorama: 755 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC
Go here and poke around. There are 3 albums of Panther picts. Most are labeled and there are some from Italy.

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panther-panzer/panther-and-panzersoldat-italy-2/
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 944 posts
Armorama: 931 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC
James,

I did the zimm with Mori Mori putty (availble from Amazon), and these two tools.


For the D-B, M.N.H pattern, the ridges should be 2,5 mm apart.

Here's one I did with the M.A.N. pattern.