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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
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Dragon Panther II Kit #6027
GaryGore
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 05, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 01:17 PM UTC
How much needs to be corrected on this kit (for those that have built this kit)? I know the hull was de-wedged which will have to be corrected and I know the turret maybe the wrong one as well.

I have a Panzer Tracts book on order so I'll be able to see what they might have looked like.

Thank you.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 05:28 PM UTC
Engine deck is also wrong (it's from a Panther, when it should have King Tiger components). Wheel spacing is wrong, and the hull dimensions aren't quite right. And the Schmalturm with the 8.8 cm gun is doubly wrong--the turret is incorrect in shape, shouldn't be on a Panther II in the first place, and couldn't mount the 88 (the original drawings were done to demonstrate that fact--the gun could not be reloaded in a Panther turret). The Panzer Tracts book has a ghost view of what the projected Panther II turret would have looked like (based on one of the final designs), but you'll have to extrapolate any details, as it was never built. The prototype hull's test weights were replaced by a late war Panther G turret when the Americans shipped it Aberdeen for testing.
GaryGore
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Posted: Monday, November 26, 2007 - 02:24 AM UTC
I see I'm going to have to do alot of fixing of this kit then. I was thinking of doing a 45-46 what if version. I'll read the Panzer Tracts book to see what I need to do.

Thank you.


Quoted Text

Engine deck is also wrong (it's from a Panther, when it should have King Tiger components). Wheel spacing is wrong, and the hull dimensions aren't quite right. And the Schmalturm with the 8.8 cm gun is doubly wrong--the turret is incorrect in shape, shouldn't be on a Panther II in the first place, and couldn't mount the 88 (the original drawings were done to demonstrate that fact--the gun could not be reloaded in a Panther turret). The Panzer Tracts book has a ghost view of what the projected Panther II turret would have looked like (based on one of the final designs), but you'll have to extrapolate any details, as it was never built. The prototype hull's test weights were replaced by a late war Panther G turret when the Americans shipped it Aberdeen for testing.
CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Monday, November 26, 2007 - 07:24 AM UTC
There is a Panther II at the Patton Museum in Ft. Knox.
SSJugend
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California, United States
Joined: April 02, 2006
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Posted: Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:02 AM UTC
This is the one at Ft. Knox, Kentucky


Here is a link and some info on the tank and prototype turret

http://www.battletanks.com/panther_ii.htm
H_Ackermans
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Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:12 PM UTC
Scrap it.

There's never going to come a Panther-II out of that kit. Too much is wrong with it.
H_Ackermans
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This is the one at Ft. Knox, Kentucky


Here is a link and some info on the tank and prototype turret

http://www.battletanks.com/panther_ii.htm


And further incorrect info gets tossed around.

No,there was NO turret for the Panther-II designed, requirements were drawn up and some angles and armour thicknesses specified, but never ever was a turret designed, let alone, one prototype made.

This site again mates the Schmalturm to the Panther-II. And it also says the Panther-II was delivered with a Panther turret.

Again, wrong. The Panther-II was found by the Allies with testweights installed. It was them who mounted a late Panther-G turret.
GaryGore
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:52 PM UTC
I found an interesting series of articles on Missing Lynx about how to correct the problems with this kit. There are problems, but they can be corrected with some work.


Quoted Text

Scrap it.

There's never going to come a Panther-II out of that kit. Too much is wrong with it.
tatbaqui
Staff MemberNews Writer
ARMORAMA
#040
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Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 06, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 01:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Panzer Tracts book has a ghost view of what the projected Panther II turret would have looked like (based on one of the final designs)


Gerald, which volume would this be? Thanks -- Tat
H_Ackermans
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Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The Panzer Tracts book has a ghost view of what the projected Panther II turret would have looked like (based on one of the final designs)


Gerald, which volume would this be? Thanks -- Tat


5-4, Panther-II and Panther-F, a must buy!
tatbaqui
Staff MemberNews Writer
ARMORAMA
#040
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2008 - 02:29 AM UTC
Thanks Herbert -- hope it does provide some illustration of what it could have looked like. Had second thoughts in buying PT 5-4 , as I was a bit disappointed with the "...Quest for Combat Supremacy" book since it only made reference to a drawing number for a turret with MG mount. Tat
ninjrk
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Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 10:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I found an interesting series of articles on Missing Lynx about how to correct the problems with this kit. There are problems, but they can be corrected with some work.



I hate to resurrect old threads but can anyone direct me to these articles?

Thanks,
Matt
GaryGore
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 11:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I found an interesting series of articles on Missing Lynx about how to correct the problems with this kit. There are problems, but they can be corrected with some work.



I hate to resurrect old threads but can anyone direct me to these articles?

Thanks,
Matt


Part 1: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1160852042/
Part 2: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1160852085/
Part 3: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1160852131/
Part 4: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1160852175/
Part 5: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1160852253/
Part 6: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/message/1160852297/
ninjrk
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Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 12:44 PM UTC
thanks very much, that's a very impressive build.

Matt
Klinker
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Tasmania, Australia
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Posted: Friday, June 03, 2011 - 10:17 PM UTC
I just got hold of one of these kits, not bad really, ignore the haters and build away! that's what I intend to do (eventually) once I've got the time.
The build you linked up was excellent, very good indeed, but sort of based on what would have been, this is a 'What If' so be as creative as possible and build it the way you want.
Start building and get some pictures posted up! all the best.
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, June 04, 2011 - 04:28 AM UTC
To make your model more interesting an I/R set by Lion Roar (I think!) would work. And add two small domed protusions on either side of the turret for the proposed stereoscopic rangefinder ( if the model doesn't already have them!)
Hederstierna
#247
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Posted: Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 09:32 AM UTC
Yes, just go for it. It's a "What if" anyway, so knock yourself out. The kit is a bit outdated, but cheap, so one might get some more AM for it.
This is my Panther II.
Jacob
mpraxel
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Montana, United States
Joined: October 11, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2011 - 07:43 AM UTC
Ok, so I am confused about the Panther II would the turret be like the panther turret or more like the TigerII style of turret? would it have a 75 or a 88 gun? Would it actually use the Tiger II suspension or a "knock off" of it? I know that with only prototypes made it is a "what if" answer anyway, but would make for some interesting modeling if more info was around for it. happy tankin!!
ninjrk
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2011 - 08:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok, so I am confused about the Panther II would the turret be like the panther turret or more like the TigerII style of turret? would it have a 75 or a 88 gun? Would it actually use the Tiger II suspension or a "knock off" of it? I know that with only prototypes made it is a "what if" answer anyway, but would make for some interesting modeling if more info was around for it. happy tankin!!


Your best bet would be to pick up the Panzer Tracts book. The turret was never settled, Jentz included a proposed design but who knows what would have actually ended up on it. The 88 is a source of contention but it's certainly far less likely than the planned 75 and probably would have resulted in a new designed and thus unknowable turret. One thing that recent research did was knock out my desire to do a what if of the Panther II in conjunction with an Ausf F, the Panther II project was cancelled significantly earlier than previously reported and if it had gone forward, would more likely have taken the place of the Ausf G or even A.

Matt
jjcadenhead
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 02, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 03:18 AM UTC
Is there a replacement metal barrel for the kit (Dragon 6027? I have looked around and I am striking out.
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