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Transport of M48 AVLB by rail
blacksmithn
Joined: August 01, 2014
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 08:59 AM UTC
I'm new here and my primary interest is in combining model railroading with military models. I am currently working on an M48 AVLB that will be shown carried on a flat car. Here's my question-- would this vehicle be transported in such a fashion with the bridge mounted on the vehicle itself or would the bridge be dismounted from the vehicle for shipping? The only picture of an M48 AVLB I could find being transported is one being shipped on a truck transport and the bridge is not present. I have not been able to find a picture of one on a flat car. This leads me to believe the bridge would be dismounted for travel, but I really don't know. Any help would be MUCH appreciated!
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 09:29 AM UTC
I guess you're right. Here are some extracts of the Transportability guidance TM for the M60 AVLB, but it should usable with M48 variant 
:
http://mobilebridges.tpub.com/TM-55-5420-202-20-1/TM-55-5420-202-20-10006.htm
http://mobilebridges.tpub.com/TM-55-5420-202-20-1/TM-55-5420-202-20-10007.htm
PS : Welcome to Armorama !
H.P.
:http://mobilebridges.tpub.com/TM-55-5420-202-20-1/TM-55-5420-202-20-10006.htm
http://mobilebridges.tpub.com/TM-55-5420-202-20-1/TM-55-5420-202-20-10007.htm
PS : Welcome to Armorama !
H.P.
AKirchhoff
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 307 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 09:35 AM UTC
Hi!
The bridge on top would exceed the hight restrictions at least in Europe. The bridge is transported separately and folded on a flatcar. The launcher vehice is transported on another flatcar with the launching mechanism layed down on the flatcar completely and chained down. If I remember correctly, the procedure is shown with sketches in the AVLBīs operatorīs manual.
Edit: Well, someone ws faster than me while I looked for additional pictures with no result. At least I can remember having seen pictures from Germany with the launcher layed down and chained down...
Andreas
The bridge on top would exceed the hight restrictions at least in Europe. The bridge is transported separately and folded on a flatcar. The launcher vehice is transported on another flatcar with the launching mechanism layed down on the flatcar completely and chained down. If I remember correctly, the procedure is shown with sketches in the AVLBīs operatorīs manual.
Edit: Well, someone ws faster than me while I looked for additional pictures with no result. At least I can remember having seen pictures from Germany with the launcher layed down and chained down...
Andreas
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 09:39 AM UTC
From FM 55-17, hope this helps;
■One tracked vehicle weighing about 100,000 pounds, such as a tank, a combat engineer vehicle, a launcher (AVLB), bridge tank, an M60 chassis, and an M88 recovery vehicle. The AVLB launcher and bridge must be on adjoining cars. The vehicle must be chocked, braced, and secured with wire rope or chains.
■One tracked vehicle weighing about 100,000 pounds, such as a tank, a combat engineer vehicle, a launcher (AVLB), bridge tank, an M60 chassis, and an M88 recovery vehicle. The AVLB launcher and bridge must be on adjoining cars. The vehicle must be chocked, braced, and secured with wire rope or chains.
chnoone
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 09:41 AM UTC
From what I have experienced all bridgelayer-tanks dismount the bridge on the flatcar in front of them during rail transport.
In "Assault Journal Vol. 8 - Journal of Armoured & Heliborne Warfare" there are some pics exactly of what you might be looking for.
Reason for this as I recall is the hight for most tunnels and the "aerodynamics" of the bridge if loaded would make the whole thing too unstable as well as endangering any approaching rail traffic in the other rail lane or in railway stations. Also the threat of rupturing the electrical power cables feeding electrical power trains along and above rails.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Christopher
In "Assault Journal Vol. 8 - Journal of Armoured & Heliborne Warfare" there are some pics exactly of what you might be looking for.
Reason for this as I recall is the hight for most tunnels and the "aerodynamics" of the bridge if loaded would make the whole thing too unstable as well as endangering any approaching rail traffic in the other rail lane or in railway stations. Also the threat of rupturing the electrical power cables feeding electrical power trains along and above rails.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Christopher
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 09:42 AM UTC
Here's a picture (c.1960) showing bridges loaded on freight cars, but I don't know if it's the standard procedure....
H.P.
H.P.
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 09:47 AM UTC
That's gotta be NTC!
Quoted Text
Here's a picture (c.1960) showing bridges loaded on freight cars, but I don't know if it's the standard procedure....
H.P.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 10:01 AM UTC
Here's the caption : "In this photo, vehicles and equipment are unloaded from flatcars for movement to Fort Irwin, California, circa 1960."
H.P.
H.P.
blacksmithn
Joined: August 01, 2014
KitMaker: 2 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 10:32 AM UTC
Thank you, one and all! This is EXACTLY the information I have been looking for! I've spent two weeks combing Google and clearly I should have come here first. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 11:06 AM UTC
Been Google mapping my head off for an hour all around Barstow and the Marine Corps Logistics Base, can't figure out where that pic was taken based on the mountains in the background. Anyone have any ideas?
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2014 - 12:55 PM UTC
The railhead is at Yermo, CA, just east of Barstow on 1-15. Just west of the railhead is a range of mountains that look just like those.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, August 02, 2014 - 12:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Here's a picture (c.1960) showing bridges loaded on freight cars, but I don't know if it's the standard procedure....
The bridge sections are in gondolas rather than flat cars. I don't think the bridges could be carried that way in Europe; they've got to be outside the 1960-era Berne loading gauge. Our clearances are much more generous.
KL
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 02, 2014 - 05:07 PM UTC
On a side note, for years I wanted to do a couple of tankes on a US flat car, I can't find plans for the ttx flat car anywhere or 1/32 scale roller bearing trucks.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 01:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On a side note, for years I wanted to do a couple of tankes on a US flat car, I can't find plans for the ttx flat car anywhere or 1/32 scale roller bearing trucks.
I'm almost certain that one of the model RR magazines had drawings of a modern flat car (Railroad Model Craftsman would be my first guess.) You need to make sure you are looking at the right one: The full four-letter marking defines the car type and there are probably 50 variations that look the same to us. Model Railroader has a good active forum where you could ask.
I think you'll be hard pressed to find much of anything in 1/32. The larger gauge stuff is usually old timey, and frequently narrow gauge prototypes.
KL
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 05:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In "Assault Journal Vol. 8 - Journal of Armoured & Heliborne Warfare" there are some pics exactly of what you might be looking for.
The article that deals with the 54th Engineer Battalion deployed in Germany includes a picture of a M60 AVLB loaded on a flat car with the launcher arm lowered. The caption says that the bridge itself is carried separately on a truck.
H.P.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 07:24 AM UTC
Maybe here you may find some inspiration about military train models:
http://www.usatrains.com/r1787.html
http://www.usatrains.com/r1787.html
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 06:12 AM UTC
Just to muddy the waters a bit, I have a picture in the Concord book, Wheeled vehicles of the U.S.Army. ( I may have the title wrong) But it show a M911 hauling a ALVB in Iraq with the bridge attached to the tank!
AKirchhoff
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 307 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 07:03 AM UTC
Hi!
Hauling an AVLB on a tank transporter with the bridge on top might be possible where there are no hight restrictions AND where there is not much transport capability left. However it changes the point of gravity extremely. Goods transportation by railway especially in Europe has very high restrictions to the profile of the load because of power lines, bridges and tunnels during the ride. So, it is definitely not possible with the bridge on top. And even with the bridge laid down folded on a separate railway car, most tracks might not be used because of width restrictions. So, yes, it might be likely to transport the bridge on a semi flatbed trailer and the tank by train.
Andreas
Hauling an AVLB on a tank transporter with the bridge on top might be possible where there are no hight restrictions AND where there is not much transport capability left. However it changes the point of gravity extremely. Goods transportation by railway especially in Europe has very high restrictions to the profile of the load because of power lines, bridges and tunnels during the ride. So, it is definitely not possible with the bridge on top. And even with the bridge laid down folded on a separate railway car, most tracks might not be used because of width restrictions. So, yes, it might be likely to transport the bridge on a semi flatbed trailer and the tank by train.
Andreas
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 05:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The railhead is at Yermo, CA, just east of Barstow on 1-15. Just west of the railhead is a range of mountains that look just like those.
I'm thinking that that railhead is about 10 or so miles east of Yermo and the MCLB Barstow. Units would use a wash to get under I-15 and move north to Ft Irwin. I seem to remember that that was an option back in the early 90's, before the HET battalion was at NTC for units that didn't draw tanks and such from those Dyncorp criminals.
JC
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 06:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe railhead is at Yermo, CA, just east of Barstow on 1-15. Just west of the railhead is a range of mountains that look just like those.
I'm thinking that that railhead is about 10 or so miles east of Yermo and the MCLB Barstow. Units would use a wash to get under I-15 and move north to Ft Irwin. I seem to remember that that was an option back in the early 90's, before the HET battalion was at NTC for units that didn't draw tanks and such from those Dyncorp criminals.
JC
Dyncorp!! Almost went to work for them at NTC in 1994! I worked for Dynair at the Anchorage International Airport up here in Alaska. I had a choice, get into law enforcement or go to work for Dyncorp, I took law enforcement and here I am today. Those creeps had us fixing tanks that were long broke when we tried to turn them back in at NTC
Major_Steuben
Joined: April 24, 2013
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 40 posts
Posted: Monday, December 04, 2017 - 03:04 AM UTC
MCLB Barstow looks like it would be a fun HO layout to build. (I build HO scale (1/87) trains. I have found a maker of the HO scale Heavy duty flat car (40### series cars) for the MBT vehicles
[http://www.albraemodels.com/models/H402-1.htm]
I also have a copy of the TM for loading vehicles on rail cars. It is Very interesting.
BTW, 1/35 car would be BIG, plus these cars use three axle trucks.
It would take about $50 in scale chain to attach it to the flat car.
Might be worth it to by a digital printer now.
Someone has blazed a trail on this build
[http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22565/dodx-flat-car-build-log]
Enjoy
[http://www.albraemodels.com/models/H402-1.htm]
I also have a copy of the TM for loading vehicles on rail cars. It is Very interesting.
BTW, 1/35 car would be BIG, plus these cars use three axle trucks.
It would take about $50 in scale chain to attach it to the flat car.
Might be worth it to by a digital printer now.
Someone has blazed a trail on this build
[http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22565/dodx-flat-car-build-log]
Enjoy
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Monday, December 04, 2017 - 05:37 AM UTC
I worked for a while back in the late 80's on the UK project to replace the No8 bridge on the Chieftain AVLB with the new No10 and No12 bridges. I know we're talking M48 here but the dimensions of the No10 will be broadly the same as the US bridge.
As I recall, the assembled bridges are too wide for European rail transport and need to be dismantled by removing the centre stays and separating the 2 trackways. But then the No10 is of modular construction. Placed flat side by side with the stays stowed separately I believe they just about fit the loading gauge, and that it was possible to double-stack the ramp sections by putting them nose to tail on top of each other. I also recall that rail transport of the AVLB carrier required the launching mechanism to be deployed forward.
Although there is a special 8x8 Tank Bridge Transporter truck that carries spare assembled bridges, you wouldn't logically put the AVLB on a train yet send the truck by road.
As I recall, the assembled bridges are too wide for European rail transport and need to be dismantled by removing the centre stays and separating the 2 trackways. But then the No10 is of modular construction. Placed flat side by side with the stays stowed separately I believe they just about fit the loading gauge, and that it was possible to double-stack the ramp sections by putting them nose to tail on top of each other. I also recall that rail transport of the AVLB carrier required the launching mechanism to be deployed forward.
Although there is a special 8x8 Tank Bridge Transporter truck that carries spare assembled bridges, you wouldn't logically put the AVLB on a train yet send the truck by road.
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