Hi Folks,
I have the Dragon M4A2 Late War PTO Sherman kit. I'm not a Shermanoholic, so I'd like to know if the M4A2 kit (which is intended to depict a USMC Sherman) can be used to model an Army 716th Armor Battalion M4A3 as it would have appeared in the Philippines in January 1945. Ive looked at the Dragon M4A3 kit, but for the life of me I can't see any EXTERNAL differences between the M4A2 and the M4A3 kits, other than there are more add-ons in the M4A2 kit-- are there any EXTERNAL differences? Should I dump the M4A2 kit and pick up the M4A3 kit? Thanks. VR, Russ
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Need Dragon PTO Sherman Help
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 07:23 AM UTC
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 08:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Folks,
I have the Dragon M4A2 Late War PTO Sherman kit. I'm not a Shermanoholic, so I'd like to know if the M4A2 kit (which is intended to depict a USMC Sherman) can be used to model an Army 716th Armor Battalion M4A3 as it would have appeared in the Philippines in January 1945. Ive looked at the Dragon M4A3 kit, but for the life of me I can't see any EXTERNAL differences between the M4A2 and the M4A3 kits, other than there are more add-ons in the M4A2 kit-- are there any EXTERNAL differences? Should I dump the M4A2 kit and pick up the M4A3 kit? Thanks. VR, Russ
Engine decks are quite different--the twin diesel engines of the M4A2 had a much narrower engine grill than the Ford gasoline engine used in the M4A3. The arrangement of the filler caps is also different. The upper tail plate of the M4A2 is flared out at ten degrees from vertical, while the M4A3 tail plate is fifteen degrees (yes, you can see the difference). The lower tail plate is quite different as well, since the M4A2 had a pair of externally mounted mufflers and exhaust pipes, while the M4A3 did not. Short answer--you will need an M4A3 kit for an Army vehicle.
goldnova72
Joined: February 21, 2009
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 592 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 08:16 AM UTC
M4A2 - twin GM 6-71 diesel engines - Small grill ( est 4 ft square ? ) on engine deck , no rear engine access hatch . M4A3 - Ford GAA V8 gas engine - Large grill( est 5 ft square ? ) on engine deck , small ( 2 ft square ? ) rear engine access hatch .
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 08:36 AM UTC
Gerald, Jim,
Thanks for the info, Yes I know the actual M4A2 and M4A3s are different, but I can't see those differences in the Dragon kit-- They look almost the same to me-- I'm trying to figure out if Dragon's PTO M4A2 uses the same components as their M4A3 kit. I don't have an M4A3 to compare it with, but Ive looked at one in the LHS-- they seem to have all the same component sprues. VR, Russ
Thanks for the info, Yes I know the actual M4A2 and M4A3s are different, but I can't see those differences in the Dragon kit-- They look almost the same to me-- I'm trying to figure out if Dragon's PTO M4A2 uses the same components as their M4A3 kit. I don't have an M4A3 to compare it with, but Ive looked at one in the LHS-- they seem to have all the same component sprues. VR, Russ
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 08:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gerald, Jim,
Thanks for the info, Yes I know the actual M4A2 and M4A3s are different, but I can't see those differences in the Dragon kit-- They look almost the same to me-- I'm trying to figure out if Dragon's PTO M4A2 uses the same components as their M4A3 kit. I don't have an M4A3 to compare it with, but Ive looked at one in the LHS-- they seem to have all the same component sprues. VR, Russ
All recent Dragon Sherman kits have the component sprue with the M4A2 engine deck parts, and the other kits just mark those as "not for use" on the instruction sheet. The sprue has other Sherman parts that are needed.
Dragon's M4A3 kits have another sprue with the appropriate engine deck grills and rear plate for the M4A3. All of the differences seen on the real vehicles are present in the kit parts.
OddBall84
Joined: May 20, 2015
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 266 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 12:36 PM UTC
Isn't the glacis plate angle different also? I seem to remember a topic by Gary Boxall that shows the rear hull angle has a slight difference.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2015 - 12:06 AM UTC
Willem,
Yes, according to the Perth Military Modelling website, they noted there is a difference in the glacis on the Dragon M4A2 in the kit. That's just one of the issues that confused me, as I looked closer at my kit, Ive found there is an extra sprue, with the M4A3 rear deck and exhaust grills still sealed in the bag (not the upper hull though) that's what led me to wonder if the M4A2 PTO couldn't be built as an M4A3. I got it second hand when I worked in a LHS several years ago, so it could be that someone put in the extra sprues. Anyway, thanks to everyone for your help, I'll probably try and pick up the M4A3 kit anyway.
VR, Russ
Yes, according to the Perth Military Modelling website, they noted there is a difference in the glacis on the Dragon M4A2 in the kit. That's just one of the issues that confused me, as I looked closer at my kit, Ive found there is an extra sprue, with the M4A3 rear deck and exhaust grills still sealed in the bag (not the upper hull though) that's what led me to wonder if the M4A2 PTO couldn't be built as an M4A3. I got it second hand when I worked in a LHS several years ago, so it could be that someone put in the extra sprues. Anyway, thanks to everyone for your help, I'll probably try and pick up the M4A3 kit anyway.
VR, Russ
OddBall84
Joined: May 20, 2015
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 266 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2015 - 12:29 AM UTC
Roadwheels and transmission housing are probably different also and don't forget the foundry markings.
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