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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Armorsmith
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 11:25 PM UTC
Hotel I stayed at this weekend in Pittsburgh, PA was across the street from museum. In front of the museum was an M4A3E8 identified as of WWII vintage. It was labeled as an HQ tank which I assumed was correct since the vehicle had multiple antenna. What I thought was unusual was that there were 2 .50cal mounts on the turret of the type that were fixed to the turret roof by means of the tubular mount commonly seen on Shermans. My question is, is this an unusual configuration or something that was common for HQ vehicles. I have never seen a picture of any M4 variant with this kind of .50cal set up. What say ye experts? Thanks.
OddBall84
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Netherlands
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 12:19 AM UTC
I vaguely recall a picture of this configuration but can not say for certain, would need to check references.
Biggles2
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 03:48 AM UTC
Beware of museum restoration vehicles!
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 04:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hotel I stayed at this weekend in Pittsburgh, PA was across the street from museum. In front of the museum was an M4A3E8 identified as of WWII vintage. It was labeled as an HQ tank which I assumed was correct since the vehicle had multiple antenna. What I thought was unusual was that there were 2 .50cal mounts on the turret of the type that were fixed to the turret roof by means of the tubular mount commonly seen on Shermans. My question is, is this an unusual configuration or something that was common for HQ vehicles. I have never seen a picture of any M4 variant with this kind of .50cal set up. What say ye experts? Thanks.


It was common to reposition the .50 caliber mount because it was used more often as an anti-sniper, anti-ambush weapon, rather than as an antiaircraft gun, and the factory installed position wasn't very useful for firing forward (unless you stood behind the turret on the rear deck). I suppose the original mounting could be left in place if a spare pedestal mount was on hand to install ahead of the cupola, but I don't recall ever seeing it done. If it's an early tank with the rotating cupola for the loader, that would have an integral MG mount on its front, and a second, pedestal, mount might be placed ahead of the commander's hatch, if he wanted a weapon. Of course, in the case of "your" display tank, this could have been something done at a depot in the US long after the war, or by a restoration team prepping the tank for display.
In any event, the machine guns have nothing to do with the tank being an HQ vehicle.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 04:50 AM UTC
The tank was made before August 15 1945 (as all Shermans were); that's about the extent of its connection with WW II. The hull is an M4A3(105) HVSS. The turret is a range salvaged 76mm turret. The markings are spurious.

KL
TankManNick
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 05:34 AM UTC
Did a model of an M4A3 76 which had a .30 cal installed ahead of the loader's hatch. Also had extra armour and sandbags and end connectors i.e. a late war example. Can't recall if I saw the picture in a SS In Action or a Concord title. I'll go check if you really want to know :-)
Armorsmith
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 07:02 AM UTC
Kurt-Sounds like you are familiar with this vehicle. I understand that this is a restoration vehicle and that the markings were probably spurious. Since I couldn't actually see the top of the vehicle from ground level(no climbing on the tank) it was hard to tell exactly where the pedestal mounts were attached. I suspected that they too were probably the result of post war restoration but not enough of a Shermaholic to be certain. If you don't mind me asking where about in PA are you? I'm just outside of Harrisburg in Camp Hill.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 08:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Did a model of an M4A3 76 which had a .30 cal installed ahead of the loader's hatch. Also had extra armour and sandbags and end connectors i.e. a late war example. Can't recall if I saw the picture in a SS In Action or a Concord title. I'll go check if you really want to know :-)



I have seen M4-series Medium tanks in my many books with extra M1919a1 cal .30s mounted ahead of the commanders' cupolas, as well as the .50s in the aft position. It should be remembered that the cal .50 was a heavy and sometimes unwieldy weapon, prompting US tankers to mount improvisational .30s as anti-personnel weapons.

The .50 was originally meant to be a defensive anti-aircraft weapon on US armor during WWII... On M4-M4A3E8 Mediums, virtually any configuration therefore, can be construed as correct, but as a general rule, a single .50 was mounted either on the earlier-style commander's cupola, or on a separate rear-mounted pedestal on M4-series Mediums...
OddBall84
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 05:55 PM UTC
Never seen them like this and to my Sherman knowledge this doesn't look like anything that was ever done but others may know more than me.

Armorsmith
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 06:56 PM UTC
That is the exact vehicle to which I was referring in my initial post.
OddBall84
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 07:10 PM UTC
Here ya go.

http://ww2live.com/en/content/world-war-2-38-ton-sherman-tank-nicknamed-easy-eight-displayed-street
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