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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Free-hand airbrushing question
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: July 13, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 06:07 AM UTC
Hello all,

How much overspray is normal in a good free-hand camo? I am managing to get an average of 1 mm overspray and I've been airbrushing for about 3 months. I am using an Iwata HP-CS and am finding it harder to pull the line closer in. The paint also starts to look a little clumpy in the overspray as if the mist isn't fine enough. (paint is supposedly well-thinned).

How good of a free-hand camo is it possible to achieve?

Thanks!
Armorsmith
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 06:17 AM UTC
You need to thin the paint more, decrease pressure, and work closer to your surface. Keep experimenting. Good luck
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 06:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You need to thin the paint more, decrease pressure, and work closer to your surface. Keep experimenting. Good luck



The Vallejo paint was thinner 3:1 paint to thinner, pressure at 15 psi, and I managed to get it down to ~1 cm away from the model. But if have to move my hand quickly to avoid pooling. There has to be a better way. This was there is very little control over line tightness.
Panzerdan412
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 07:42 AM UTC
Check Your needle tip and inner crown fluid bit. They get damaged Extremely easily and with Zero reason.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:00 AM UTC
Air brushing is not an exact science. Most of it is trial and error. The thinner the paint mix the closer you need to work and use less pressure. Keep trying using different ratios/pressure. Some degree of overspray is OK as much of it will "disappear" during the weathering process. There was also overspray in real life as the equipment was not all that precision and often times crews did it in the field using the onboard compressor if there was one. If we're talking WWII German for most of the war the cammo colors were provided and was of a thick consistency and "thinned" with what ever was locally available, water, gasoline, etc. Modern stuff is more neatly done more at the battalion depots or depending on country even the factory. Good luck.
Thirian24
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Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:30 AM UTC
Check your the tip of your needle, you could be getting dried paint built up on it. Use a q-tip with thinner on it to keep it cleaned off.
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Check your the tip of your needle, you could be getting dried paint built up on it. Use a q-tip with thinner on it to keep it cleaned off.



There is a lot of tip dry, and often. I use a q tip soaked in windex to wipe after every 4-6 seconds of spraying. Keeps the paint flowing, but doesn't help with overspray or clumping.
J8kob_F
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 24, 2012
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 12:24 PM UTC
HI!

When I use Vallejo i mix it 1:1, you get less coverage so you have to do a couple of passes but the overspray is virtually no existent

Also what are you using to thin the paint, i find that using vallejo's own airbrush thinner is the only way to make it really behave

Jakob
gaborka
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Borsod-Abauj-Zemblen, Hungary
Joined: October 09, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 02:13 PM UTC
With Vallejo Air series you should go for less pressure, even as low as 10psi if your compressor can handle this. Also removing the crown/swirl ring (nr. 1 part in the exploded view of your airbrush) will reduce overspray, watch the needle tip though. Also adding a drop of clear gloss might reduce overspray as well. Spraying from a shorter distance (a few centimeters) helps too. Grab a plastic lid of a coffee box or something to practice the settings.

M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 02:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

With Vallejo Air series you should go for less pressure, even as low as 10psi if your compressor can handle this. Also removing the crown/swirl ring (nr. 1 part in the exploded view of your airbrush) will reduce overspray, watch the needle tip though. Also adding a drop of clear gloss might reduce overspray as well. Spraying from a shorter distance (a few centimeters) helps too. Grab a plastic lid of a coffee box or something to practice the settings.




ALL of the above, from all modellers who have taken the time to help you out with your question, PLUS lots of PRACTICE...

BTW- 1mm of over-spray isn't very much at all...
gaborka
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Borsod-Abauj-Zemblen, Hungary
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 02:52 PM UTC
yep 1mm is actually ok if the vaporization is fine enough.
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 03:44 PM UTC
I can't talk about Vallejo paints because I use Tamiya and Mr Color paints, but I do thin them a lot for detail work.. 75% thinner to 25% paint (3:1).

One trick which I learned from one of the guys here is to remove the crown and get REALLY close to the surface (but you need to be very careful with the needle tip).. and I usually have my compressor at about 10 psi or a little less when I do cammo and things like that.

Here is a sample I did using an Iwata Revolution which has a 0.5mm nozzle, so it's not intended for detail work.

I did the brown on the turret freehand... would you consider it to be acceptable?



Hisham
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 07:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I can't talk about Vallejo paints because I use Tamiya and Mr Color paints, but I do thin them a lot for detail work.. 75% thinner to 25% paint (3:1).

One trick which I learned from one of the guys here is to remove the crown and get REALLY close to the surface (but you need to be very careful with the needle tip).. and I usually have my compressor at about 10 psi or a little less when I do cammo and things like that.

Here is a sample I did using an Iwata Revolution which has a 0.5mm nozzle, so it's not intended for detail work.

I did the brown on the turret freehand... would you consider it to be acceptable?



Hisham



Hi Hisham,

That's great. That's more or less what I was aiming for. Your over-spray is less than mine. Today I will try 10 psi and 1:1 thinning.

Thank you all!
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:30 PM UTC
Along with all of the great stuff mentioned above...

A little trick I have used to tighten up over-spray when working a larger "patch"; angling your AB in towards the center of the desired patch while doing the edges. Paint aerosols travel out in an expanding cone from the needle tip - so tipping that cone reduces the over-spray and fuzzing on the under-side. This works for all pressures and paint-thickness (albeit lower p and thinner, along with keeping closer to the work, always gets the closer edge better).

But, hey! A 1.0mm over-spray is pretty close! Considering that such would represent a 35mm over-spray in 1:1 scale... You have probably hit close to the precision of the real thing! Just look at the real pics - and even at museum relics which have been repainted in the calm and safety of the shop.

I would add that getting very close, while serving to tighten up edges, also can easily lead to evident edge strips or zones visible in the patch... It is easy to get more paint on in the close-in edging work than you might have applied in some larger area at greater working distance. Care and caution!

IF you really want to keep things pretty tight - say sub -1.0mm - when spraying, and you don't want to fuss around with or are not perhaps consistent enough in free-handing (and some of us as we get older DON'T IMPROVE - I blame my edging vagueness on old hands! ), mask the lines. It's the route I now go when I seek to effectively "zero" the over-spray effects. Masking is easy to do, works quite well, and produces edge-lines as tight as one could wish for. And it eliminates most or all of the uneven paint density issue within the patch. There have been some good discussions of masking and spraying posted on Armorama over the past couple years - visiting these will provide you all kinds of ideas and advice, if you wish to try that route.

Cheers!

Bob
Saber7
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: September 05, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 11:49 PM UTC
Great advice by all. I would add that you seek out an art shop with airbrushing classes. Yu will learn a lot about the art which can downsize (1/35th) to your needs. There are some online resources such as this guy, a bit odd but funny. http://www.airbrushtutor.com/tutorials/94-how-to-airbrush-a-line The lines can get as fine as you want, into microns with the right equipment. Try Youtube boat loads of tutorials! IN fact if you put airbrushtutor into the Youtube search you get all of his videos there.

Good luck!
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 10:47 PM UTC
Hello all,

Thank you for your help. This is what I ended up doing for the below photos: Vallejo model air, 2 paint : 1 thinner, 12 PSI on the gauge (~8 operating), nozzle crown removed, working about 1 cm above the model surface. I'd say it's still not perfect, but it's about as good as I can get it at the moment. It's patchy, but I plan to mask the edges completely and fill in the solid areas properly.

 photo pzh2000 1_zpsnft7dgxu.jpg

 photo pzh2000 2_zpsyqyofknw.jpg
Illini
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:01 PM UTC
for that sort of pattern, I've used the "silly putty" technique. Do a base coat of the lighter color, then put globs of putty where you want to keep that color, the spray the second, third or more colors using the same technique.

There is no "right" pattern, so it's very forgiving.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:17 PM UTC
Came out very nicely in my opinion. Anxious to see it worn and weathered. Good luck.
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

for that sort of pattern, I've used the "silly putty" technique. Do a base coat of the lighter color, then put globs of putty where you want to keep that color, the spray the second, third or more colors using the same technique.

There is no "right" pattern, so it's very forgiving.



You are correct regarding there being no correct pattern, but the reason I tried to do it free-hand is because I still wanted to have a very tiny feathered edge. In reality the paint on this vehicle was applied in the field by spray gun, so the real camo is fairly patchy and soft edged.
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Came out very nicely in my opinion. Anxious to see it worn and weathered. Good luck.



Thanks! I've never done a build blog, but maybe I can try making a new post for this model with some progress photos.
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:36 PM UTC
It came out really nice.. I don't think you can really get zero over-spray when you do it freehand.. The washes and weathering will take care of whatever over-spray you may think is more than you wanted.

Hisham
KruppCake
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 12:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It came out really nice.. I don't think you can really get zero over-spray when you do it freehand.. The washes and weathering will take care of whatever over-spray you may think is more than you wanted.

Hisham



Thanks, Hisham! Another 'cheat' way to clean up some of the overspray is to go over the tiny dots with 800 sand paper in circles.
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