Jagdpanzer "Battle of Bulge"
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 05:41 PM UTC
Hi guys,
At these days I am researching about this photo
Which camouflage pattern applied to this tank? It was supposed to be tricolor famous german pattern but I can not see 3 color on this photo ( just 2 color I can see)
Please comment if you have any information or idea about this.
Thanks
#186
Texas, United States
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 771 posts
Armorama: 750 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 07:58 PM UTC
Wish I had some info for you. Just want to say that's going to be a very cool project!
SgtRam
Contributing Writer#197
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,971 posts
Armorama: 2,859 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 08:15 PM UTC
First off, I don't believe this photo is from Battle of the Bulge, I do believe it was earlier during the post Normandy pushes. The Battle of the Bulge was a winter fight, if you look at the ground, it does not look like winter.
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 09:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
First off, I don't believe this photo is from Battle of the Bulge, I do believe it was earlier during the post Normandy pushes. The Battle of the Bulge was a winter fight, if you look at the ground, it does not look like winter.
When i saw it on pinterest there was an info about it battle of bulge. So if you are right it might be 2 color camo schem that is olivgrün over dunkelgelb right?
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 09:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Wish I had some info for you. Just want to say that's going to be a very cool project!
Thanks.If i can not find any further info I will build this with 3 color camo anyway.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: December 31, 2015
KitMaker: 16 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 09:35 PM UTC
That photo is in Osprey's Panther VS. Sherman book on page 48 with the caption "...as the slogan on the side suggests, this one was lost fighting with the 3rd Armored Division."
Not much help, it may be a lead for where to look further. Additionally, the lack of foliage on the trees in the background would suggest the photo being taken some time between fall 1944 and spring 1945.
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: May 07, 2013
KitMaker: 242 posts
Armorama: 234 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 09:39 PM UTC
It's definitely a winter picture, the trees in the background are bare.
#521
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 09:50 PM UTC
This is just my two cents worth . . .
As a photographer and lifetime modeler I have been analyzing "what color is that?" in black and white photos since about 1969.
Myself I do not see any variation in that dark color tone to indicate any form on camo paint. Given how dark the overall tank is I think it is painted uniform Panzer Gray with a light coating of dust over the tracks and road wheels.
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 10:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This is just my two cents worth . . .
As a photographer and lifetime modeler I have been analyzing "what color is that?" in black and white photos since about 1969.
Myself I do not see any variation in that dark color tone to indicate any form on camo paint. Given how dark the overall tank is I think it is painted uniform Panzer Gray with a light coating of dust over the tracks and road wheels.
I didn't think any Jagdpanzer IV's were painted gray ?
Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 10:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I didn't think any Jagdpanzer IV's were painted gray ?
Exactly.
I found another thread on this with little more info:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47210/thread/1247151801/non+axis+modeler+wants+to+know+what+camoflage+scheme+to+useI like the theory that the tank burnt out. Then again, the overall vehicle could not have been burning, because then the road wheels wouldn't have remained intact...
As regards the time frame, the picture definitely was taken in the winter, and the wreck looks quite fresh, with all the road wheels/ tracks atc. stilll on (except for the blown out parts)...
#521
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 10:48 PM UTC
Just telling you what I see Tony. I don't know the history relating to this question.
I don't think it is but that might be solid red primer. However the red primer usually looks lighter in a B&W photo and red has a certain "look" to it in B&W. I don't see that here.
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: September 30, 2015
KitMaker: 2,493 posts
Armorama: 2,344 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 12:16 PM UTC
This Tiger is in red primer. Maybe you can compare?
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
#424
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 01:11 PM UTC
I disagree. The wheels, drive sprockets and idlers are obviously dunkelgelb, though dusty. Painting the road wheels in camo pattern was more the exception than the rule.
You can see some variation of color amidst the chalk writing, though difficult. Perhaps much of the dunkelgelb has been overpainted with a lot of rotbrun and or olivegrun.
If this is a autumn/winter/spring photo, dust would not have been an issue since mud would be more likely in that weather. So, I'm thinking the twisted fender over the tracks looks dunkelgelb, too.
Best wishes,
Gary
"Artillery adds dignity, to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl."
Frederick The Great
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 04:26 PM UTC
Thanks everyone for comments. Also I can see slight curve of camouflage pattern on this tank. If u look at carefully end of "T" letter you can see. But I can see just 2 tones. Is it possible that tank has 2 color camo? Olivgrün over dunkelgelb?
Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 10:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks everyone for comments. Also I can see slight curve of camouflage pattern on this tank. If u look at carefully end of "T" letter you can see. But I can see just 2 tones. Is it possible that tank has 2 color camo? Olivgrün over dunkelgelb?
Putting together all the facts - winter, Jagdpanzer IV, taken out by 3AD - puts this wreck in France, winter 44/45. So, Olivgrun over Dunkelgelb is completely plausible and probable.
Best,
Matt
SSG, INF, USA (Ret.)
"I am waiting for the tanks, and the Americans."
General Philippe Petain, September 1917
Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 10:51 PM UTC
Rhode Island, United States
Joined: December 20, 2015
KitMaker: 13 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 11:20 PM UTC
Photo could've have been taken long after the battle when snow had already melted . Could still be winter there's no foliage on the trees
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 01:25 AM UTC
Might be this
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzerjagers/Jagdpanzer-IV/Jagdpanzer-IV.pngI agree with Dave the photo taken maybe 3 monts after fight and paint got darker. I am not sure but I Feel this tank with 2 color camo. When I examine photo I see 2 color. I think I will built this projct with 2 color camo.
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 01:37 AM UTC
From the architecture of the Roof is really difficult to be Italy,a roof like that maybe if you hare lucky you can find few in the nord-East near Austria but is easyer to be France,Holland,Belgium or Germany.
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 05:08 AM UTC
Based on the brick work of the house my GUESS is Holland or Belgium. Time of year guess would be Fall as it doesn't look muddy.
On the bench :
A whole bunch of figures, Too many half built kits and a (gasp) wing thing
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 07:23 AM UTC
How about a second option...ever guess that the vehicle could have caught on fire and the dark color you see on top is just burnt paint /soot/etc?
Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 03:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
How about a second option...ever guess that the vehicle could have caught on fire and the dark color you see on top is just burnt paint /soot/etc?
That's what I said in an earlier post, but noone picked up on that. To me it's the most plausible explanation for the strong contrast between the white letters and the rest.
Seeing that a return roller got blown of means something quite bad happened to the tank. Might as well have been an internal fire that went on outside...
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 03:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
How about a second option...ever guess that the vehicle could have caught on fire and the dark color you see on top is just burnt paint /soot/etc?
That's what I said in an earlier post, but noone picked up on that. To me it's the most plausible explanation for the strong contrast between the white letters and the rest.
Seeing that a return roller got blown of means something quite bad happened to the tank. Might as well have been an internal fire that went on outside...
Along with what appears to be burnt wood on the long post leaning up against the front of the Jagdpanzer I'd say there was fire damage with blackening to the upper superstructure from it.
As for being able to tell colours from a black and white photo....if you can do that you are truly a unique human being and should be able to earn a fortune doing so.
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 03:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
How about a second option...ever guess that the vehicle could have caught on fire and the dark color you see on top is just burnt paint /soot/etc?
That's what I said in an earlier post, but noone picked up on that. To me it's the most plausible explanation for the strong contrast between the white letters and the rest.
Seeing that a return roller got blown of means something quite bad happened to the tank. Might as well have been an internal fire that went on outside...
Along with what appears to be burnt wood on the long post leaning up against the front of the Jagdpanzer I'd say there was fire damage with blackening to the upper superstructure from it.
As for being able to tell colours from a black and white photo....if you can do that you are truly a unique human being and should be able to earn a fortune doing so.
Ok I am satisfied it is burnt
especiallly upper side end gun seems burnt. So i will built this scene as burnt. Thanks everyone
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 23, 2014
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 03:31 AM UTC
I think this tank blowed up and this part in res circle is top of the tank
Here is an example
What do you think?
