_GOTOBOTTOM
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
WWII Panther base paint question
brekinapez
Visit this Community
Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 06:56 AM UTC
I read somewhere that the first run of production Panthers were completed sometime in December of 1942, and seeing as dunkelgelb didn't go into effect until the following middle of February, the question is thus:

Is there any possibility of Panthers finished during this brief time frame being finished in dunkelgrau RAL 7021 (even if they were quickly repainted in a couple of months), or would they have sat long enough at the factory in primer to make the start of the dunkelgelb base initiative?

I ask because I know that some gray vehicles were reported oversprayed with dunkelgelb at Kursk, which was only a few months after the camo change. Mostly field applications, to be sure, for vehicles that hadn't made it back into depot for service or whatnot I guess, or an added sense of security for the crew. A lot of non-armor like trucks and staff cars, but enough armor in gray to warrant the inquiry.

I thought a Panther in dark gray with faded dark yellow stripes might be a cool change, but I want to establish a precedent for gray, if possible.

So. Is a very early Panther in dunkelgrau possible?

Thanks in advance.
Thirian24
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: September 30, 2015
KitMaker: 2,493 posts
Armorama: 2,344 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 07:08 AM UTC
Very interesting. I'd like to hear these replies.
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 07:26 AM UTC
Your question sounds like a good one indeed, Shell, given as the Panther came along right before the Dunkelgelb base-coat regulation...

My "gut" answer is that you are pretty much obligated to do your P kitty in the 'gelb.

Panther D entered into production by MAN in late 1942, with the first production D's rolling off the line at Nurnberg in DEC 1942. At this time, these MAY have been painted in Dunkelgrau, although the change-over to base-coating in Dunkelgelb was certainly already known to be coming down, and assembly plants may well have started this by 12/42 or 01/43. The first several D were issued to the new Pz Abt 51 in 01/1943. Pz Abt 52 was formed up in 02/43 with the subsequent lot of new D kitties. These early D were plagued by many problems which emerged as Pz Abt 51 and 52 crews started training on their new steeds. ALL of these early D were collected from the new Pz Abteilungen in April 1943 and sent back for a refurbishment in Nurnberg, and returned to the Pz Abt late in May 1943 pending movement to Russia for the coming Kursk campaign.

Bottom line: While the first several MAY have shipped out of Nurnberg for initial crew training in Jan or Feb 1943 wearing dunkelgrau, they would have been repainted to dunkelgelb at the training center or, if not there, when they were returned for rebuilding in Nurnberg in April 1943. So... I seriously doubt that ANY Panther made it into action anywhere wearing the dunkelgrau base-coat. Every known picture of Panthers D before Kursk seems to show a likely dunkelgelb base with or without added camo.
color(s).

Now, IF you were building an "initial" D as if it had just rolled off the line at MAN in DEC 1942... MAYBE this kitty COULD be gray! Otherwise, I think it's dunkelgelb or... dunkelgelb!

But, hey, this is just what I think based on what I've read, so...!

Bob
tatbaqui
Staff MemberNews Writer
ARMORAMA
#040
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 09:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Now, IF you were building an "initial" D as if it had just rolled off the line at MAN in DEC 1942... MAYBE this kitty COULD be gray!



Both Spielberger's and Jentz' Panther books have this pair of Panther pics parked outside what seems to be a factory -- captioned as one of the first five built by MAN in Nuernberg. Looks very much dunkelgrau to me. Cheers
Thirian24
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: September 30, 2015
KitMaker: 2,493 posts
Armorama: 2,344 posts
Posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 - 12:14 PM UTC
Here is a picture of two Tiger 1's fresh from the factory. One is obviously painted in something other than Dunkelgelb, the other looks like Red oxide primer. You can see a Panther in the background. I can't tell what the color is.

brekinapez
Visit this Community
Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 04:43 AM UTC
Meh, that's what I figured.

Guess it's back to the same old, same old.

Thanks, guys.
 _GOTOTOP