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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
AK/Ammo clogging
JimboHUN
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 01:48 PM UTC
Hi Folks,

So recently I have decided to give a try to both AK and Ammo acrylic paints as I really like their color range.

I have studied the vids online and so far I managed to lay down nice base coats (both primer and base colors). So as a next step I started experimenting with finer lines, details, but looks like I just cannot make it. I have tried with both my 0.2 and 0.4 airbrush, although it does not really matter as I have to screw in the needle adjuster anyway to avoid spraying too much at a time.

My issue is that the paint starts to dry on the tip of the needle/nozzle very quickly and I have to clean it like every 5 minutes and as a result the pattern and the paint amount is very inconsistent. It also tends to clog but some shaking helps sometimes.

The airbrush I use is a new H&S Evo which I clean properly after each use. I am sure it works as it should since I have tried with Tamiya acrylics and it worked perfectly even with very thin lines.

But with Ammo or AK I am unable to paint even a 0.5 cm line with nice overspray. I used around 15 PSI and slight thinning for light coats (1:1) but based on the videos I should be able to use it just straight out of the jar and by lowering the pressure I should be able to paint fine lines...

So I’d really appreciate your comments please.

Cheers,

Adam
specter116
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 18, 2015
KitMaker: 3 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 04:37 PM UTC
i saw a video on that issue, 1 can be to much air pressure. go down between 10 and 15 psi. or add a retarder to slow down the ionization.

good luck
JimboHUN
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 05:55 PM UTC
Thank you, I think I have tried that but maybe my AB was too clogged already by then.

Unfortunately I am not aware of any retarder for Ammo or AK paints...

Cheers,

Adam
Unreality
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Georgia, United States
Joined: November 04, 2010
KitMaker: 172 posts
Armorama: 145 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 06:06 PM UTC
I've used Vallejo airbrush thinner with them with no problem. Also, Golden makes an airbrush medium (looks white, but dries clear), and that works fine with all but my Tamiya acrylics.
varanusk
Staff MemberManaging Editor
ARMORAMA
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Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / España
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 06:34 PM UTC
I have used Vallejo flow improver with AK and works fine, just had the chance to try once but there was a noticeable difference for me.
48thscale
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Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: January 31, 2009
KitMaker: 229 posts
Armorama: 109 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 07:39 PM UTC
Low pressure and Vallejo retarder did it for me...had the same thing happening...the only thing I need now is a steady hand, suggestions?

H.
SgtRam
Staff MemberContributing Writer
AEROSCALE
#197
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 08:47 PM UTC
I have started using Ammo almost exclusively and thin with Ammo Thinner using a Grex 3.5mm airbrush and have no issues. But for acrylic paint, I find it takes longer to dry on the model.

Thirian24
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: September 30, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 09:50 PM UTC
I have AK retarder. AK737
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 10:57 PM UTC
Liquitex products work in all acrylic paints. To cure drying and clogging, get some Slo-Dri retarder and some Flo-Aid surficant. They will change your airbrushing forever.
Jedge3
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Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 11:23 PM UTC
For Ammo paint on my latest project, I thinned using Mr. Color Leveling Thinner. The stuff used for lacquer and it worked great. Nice and smooth. I have not tried it with AK paints yet. However, it does not work with Vallejo or Hataka paints so don't try it!

Also the Golden products are great. There have been some special mixes on line where people mix water, the flo-aid and retarder with some IPA to get great thinners.
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 11:29 PM UTC
Why do I feel like I'm the only modeler in the world who is Ammo and AK challenged?



Quoted Text

For Ammo paint on my latest project, I thinned using Mr. Color Leveling Thinner



What ratio do you thin the Ammo paint to? I have the Leveling Thinner and I use it with both Tamiya and Mr Color acrylics with perfect results... but it would be nice to be able to use Ammo.. first, because they have such a wide range of shades of colors... and second, it's much easier to get water based acrylics shipped by airmail.

Hisham
Tojo72
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 12:47 AM UTC
Why do we need extra products to make something work correctly ?

Just sayin
SgtRam
Staff MemberContributing Writer
AEROSCALE
#197
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 01:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Why do we need extra products to make something work correctly ?

Just sayin



Do Tamiya paints spray right out of the bottle? You have to use Tamiya Thinner(Lacquer or Acrylic) or alcohol to airbrush them properly.

Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 01:14 AM UTC
Naturally you will need thinner I think Anthony means that with Tamiya you don't need to use any extra stuff like paint retarder or flow improver or anything else... you just use Tamiya paints and Tamiya thinner and you're set.. no clogging or any other problems.

It's all different opinions and points of view

Hisham
Tojo72
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 01:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Why do we need extra products to make something work correctly ?

Just sayin



Do Tamiya paints spray right out of the bottle? You have to use Tamiya Thinner(Lacquer or Acrylic) or alcohol to airbrush them properly.




True,but not thinner and retarder or AB Flow improver.
krow113
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 16, 2010
KitMaker: 473 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 02:01 AM UTC
Retarder and Tamiya thinner with a drop of lacquer thinner as well. Never clogs my ab. Good for all acrylics.
JimboHUN
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 443 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 02:20 AM UTC
Hello Lads, thank you all for your comments.

My aim would be using these paints without any additional extra stuff - just like on the tutorials.

I will have a look at the AK retarder - I had no idea they have one (I presume that also works with Ammo paints). But it would be nice to have for the hot summer

Maybe I just used too much pressure in the beggining and even though I lowered the pressure after that, it was clogged already.

Next time I will set it to 10 Psi before starting.

Just to run the numbers - could some of you please share what parameters are you painting Ammo/AK with (thinning, nozzle size, pressure).

I will keep on experimenting, I am sure it should work well if so many people can use it

Cheers,

Adam

hellvetier
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Bern, Switzerland
Joined: April 17, 2008
KitMaker: 264 posts
Armorama: 156 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 02:39 AM UTC
Hei guys

I got some Mig-Ammo Colourmodulation sets. When I use them with my airbrush it clogs sometime. I thin it extremely down with Ammo-thinner, but it doesn't help much... Gonna buy a retarder...

And while spraying the top of the mixture in the airbrush-cup gets a white residue. I think it's white colour, because at the end when I stir it up in the cup, the colour gets lighter. That's odd...

Too bad Tamiya doesn't produce a similar colour range in eye-droppers. Would be my first choice


Ammo-Paint: 1/1 ratio in Tamiya HG airbrush 0,2mm with 10psi
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 03:30 AM UTC
Ammo paint - straight from the bottle, .35 mm airbrush, 15 PSI.
Namabiiru
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: March 05, 2014
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 03:43 AM UTC
So my related question for the paint pros is this: Any negative impact of adding retarder directly to the pain bottle to I have pre-mixed paint right from the bottle?

I find that I do get better results with a tiny bit of retarder, but it's such a waste to mix a big enough amount in a small container to have enough to go in the AB--especially when I only need basically a few drops of paint for what I'm doing. Mixing directly in the AB has never seemed to work at all.

SgtRam
Staff MemberContributing Writer
AEROSCALE
#197
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 03:48 AM UTC
I do find that Vallejo paints tend to dry out in the tip, thus I have a mixture of Vallejo Primer and Retarder on pre-mixed when I need to thin Vallejo and Vallejo Air for airbrushing.
clayocker
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 69 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 03:58 AM UTC
Use a few drops of Mr Color Leveling thinner with your AK or AMMO paints. Mix it in the cup of the airbrush, and it will change your life. 15-20 PSI and you will be fine. This product will completely simplify the spraying process with these paints. The only 'issue' with doing this is you are losing the 'non-toxic' properties of the paint...
You can see the results I get at http://www.theworkbench.com.au/
Thirian24
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: September 30, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 09:05 AM UTC
I just sprayed this with AK 178 straight out of the bottle, no thinner or anything. Sprayed flawlessly.

11Bravo_C2
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Texas, United States
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 10:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Why do we need extra products to make something work correctly ?

Just sayin



Im an airbrush dummy. This is quoted from my friend's father, an auto body worker...

"Because we don't spray paints in a controlled environment. The temp and humidity where you do your painting is different than mine. And that has an effect on spray painting.

The additives, be it a flow-aid or retarder, are used to counteract the effects of environmental conditions not poor equipment setup.."

Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 03:23 PM UTC
I tried using Mr Color Leveling Thinner with some Mig Ammo primer I have and it actually worked very nicely.. no dry tip at all.. I would paint a little, then leave the AB with paint in the cup for 10 - 15 minutes, then come back and paint some more and it was spraying fine without any clogging. I diluted the primer 1:1, so it was a little thin, but still it worked fine.. I already use the leveling thinner, so I don't have a problem with the smell.. but now maybe I can use Ammo paints. I'll try it with AK paints today and see how it goes.

So, just wanted to thank you guys for suggesting this idea.. I never would have thought to try the leveling thinner with water based acrylics

Hisham
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