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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Help with pigments
Anmoga
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Spain / España
Joined: November 18, 2004
KitMaker: 456 posts
Armorama: 333 posts
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 - 04:50 PM UTC
Hi guys,

This is the first time I use pigments.

I used pigments on my model in order to learn new techniques and don't know if I did something wrong or if that is the way it should look.

The model had a coat of Tamiya's clear, then I added the decals, another coat of Tamiya's clear, some oil dots added and finally I gave an overall coat of pigments dissolved in water.

I was trying to give the model a dusty look but the coat is uneven and in some places there are no pigments at all.

I dissolved the pigments in water and was mixing it constantly so the pigments didn't go to the bottom.

Is this the way it should look? Did I do something wrong? Am I suppose to do something afterwards?



Thanks for your help,
Angel
CDK
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 24, 2006
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 - 06:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Is this the way it should look?



If that is the look you wanted to achieve, than yes.



Quoted Text

Did I do something wrong?



Not necessarily, there are many ways to doing things.



Quoted Text

Am I suppose to do something afterwards?



Again, that all depends on what you want it too look like.


Don't think that these comments are meant to be rude or less than helpful, on the contrary. I'm trying to help you look at weathering a little differently. There is no right or wrong to any of this, there is only the outcome that you strive to achieve. Does this match your reference photo or what you see in your mind?

Since you applied these pigments with water, you should be able to use a stiff dry brush to soften them or remove some of them. You could also dampen your brush (not soaking wet, just damp) and go back and slowly re-shape what you have. You can remove it where you don't want it, make downward streaks where you want to show where rain water has washed some away. You can further blend them and remove the more harsh tied marks etc. You can go back and add more later where you want more or maybe took too much off.

Weathering is not a simple linear process like many may think, going back and forth between mediums and applying and removing effects is far more important and creates a much better finish than adhering to some 1-2-3 process.

Switch your focus from being right or wrong and apply it to trying to mimic things you see in the real world or your reference photos. Almost nothing you do is permanent and can almost always be lessened a great deal or taken a step or two further.
DutyFirst1917
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 03, 2016
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Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 - 07:48 PM UTC
Angel,

If you desire to remove some of the pigment based on some Ken's suggestions I would add that warm water works great for helping the soften things up. You will have to gradually use different water temps but I have found that once you find the right temperature you can make some great progress.

As you are trying to get a dusty look I would recommend just keeping a look out during your day to see how the dust settles on vehicles around you. Things like more near the fenders and front of a vehicle versus much less on other places might help you as you weather your Panzer.

Regarding afterwards once you get the dust effect where you want it I would recommend sealing it with a varnish of some sort to keep the pigments where you want them as you mentioned you did after painting and decals.

Re-post a finished picture when you are done - have fun and luckily tanks are almost always dirty!

Tim
flippen_waffles
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California, United States
Joined: June 01, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 12:21 AM UTC





Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 02:57 AM UTC
i prefere do it with white spirit dry quicker and leave a look less patchy,check real picture,you can find good SBS video on the youtube or nice SBS like the one Jon post,on vertical surface go downward and in orizontal stipple and go more near the hedges and recesses

you can download some SBS on AK and Ammo website
varanusk
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ARMORAMA
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Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / España
Joined: July 04, 2013
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Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 04:21 AM UTC
From my experience, pigments over a gloss surface are a mess. Try to clean it, give it a matt varnish coat and see if it works better.
Anmoga
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Spain / España
Joined: November 18, 2004
KitMaker: 456 posts
Armorama: 333 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 09:22 PM UTC
Thanks guys for your replies.

I have that weathering magazine issue somewhere in a box.

I haven't paint a model since I finished university and that has been almost 15 years.

This Tiger I is a model I built when I was a kid (probably 8th or 9th grade) and I am using it as a testbed.

I will get some other old kits and try different solvents and on different finishes (glossy, semiglossy and flat) to experiment and get some experience.

The other day I bought some of AK's products and have to try them as well as some not so old school techniques.

I will keep posting some photos to get some feedback.

Thanks again for your help.

Best regards,
Angel
spongya
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MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: February 01, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 04:00 PM UTC
Hi,

you don't really need to buy products to do dust; pigments (even chalk dust) is perfectly fine. (I did a quick experiment with pigments using water, white spirit, and other "solvents"; see the results.)

I suggest first trying the simpler, cheaper methods. You can simulate dust using paint (spraying them with an airbrush), using oils, pigments, etc; the learning curve of the "dedicated" products is the same as the budget versions'.
Armored76
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: September 30, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 05:25 PM UTC
@Andras: Can you correct the link, please? I'd also be interested in your results.

Thanks!
spongya
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MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: February 01, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 06:43 PM UTC
https://butterfingeredmodelbuilder.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/experiments-with-pigments/

Sorry for the mess-up. This is what you get when you're reading armorama on lunch break in a hurry.
Anmoga
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Spain / España
Joined: November 18, 2004
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Posted: Monday, August 22, 2016 - 01:22 AM UTC
Thanks Andras. Interesting experiment.

I am thinking of doing something similar but also with different finishes (glossy, semi-gloss and flat) to see the results.

Best regards,
Angel
spongya
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MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 07:58 PM UTC
That would really be interesting. I suspect gloss surfaces would make pigments work more like washes: completely wiped off from exposed areas. I'd be curious to see.
zorrolobo
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Distrito Federal, Mexico
Joined: May 31, 2013
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Posted: Friday, August 26, 2016 - 07:39 PM UTC
I really recomend watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGPH1BM4e_Q

Past the middle of the video there is a good section on pigments. Really worth it. I did learn a lot from it.
Anmoga
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Spain / España
Joined: November 18, 2004
KitMaker: 456 posts
Armorama: 333 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 08:07 PM UTC
Sorry for my late reply.

Thanks Marcos.

Best regards,
Angel


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