Hi,

I'm on my second model after being away from the hobby for many, many years and have to learn all the nice stuff that's available now. I decided to try some weathering on my Tamiya 1/35 Panther.

So, what I've done so far is:

* Vallejo acrylic base coat
* Tamiya acrylic camouflage (yellow, green brown)
* Vallejo acrylic gloss coat

I've understood that gloss coating is done in order to protect the underlying colors from the washes and weathering process, so that's why I added that coat. But it looks so shiny and it's so darn slippery now! I will add a final matte coat at the end, and I hope it gets rid of the super shine.

But the problem is the washes. I have Tamiya's brown enamel wash as well as Vallejo's brown wash. I've only tried Tamiya's enamel wash so far as it's supposed to work well over an acrylic base. The wash itself looks like I've seen washes look, i.e. very thin. When I apply the wash to a bolt or a panel seam the wash is simply sucked off the brush and more or less vanishes. The capillary force sucks the wash away and it gets applied really nicely. The problem is that it's totally invisible! I've applied a lot to some test panels and I have no idea where it goes. It fills the seams for a while and then seems to disappear. No, there are no holes that would lead inside the tank. If I want to have any form of depth/shadow effect with this wash I'll have to dip the tank in the wash or just pour over spoonfuls of it.

Videos I've seen on Youtube have the wash behave physically in a similar way, i.e. the wash flows nicely along panels and bolts, but in the videos the wash also leaves some form of color and there's usually some residue that needs to be cleaned up later. This leaves very little. Anything obvious that I've done wrong?

I have thought about getting some artist oil paints and thin them out and try instead, but I'd like to know what in my process or choice of colors that is wrong so far. Is Tamiya's wash simply not good. I'll try Vallejo's tomorrow, but I'm a bit sceptical about a acrylic wash over acrylic paints, especially if I have to do some cleaning with thinner.

Any hints for a total newbie?

hi,

my first guess is that the wash is tooooo thin

or

the acrylic paint is sucking all the washes and colors thru its pores

for how long did you leave the model to dry before you washed it ?!

cheers

Here's what I do mate. Paint in acrylic then let dry. Gloss varnish, I use humbrol. Then wait 24 hrs. Give area for wash a damp cost of white spirit. Then add a wash mixed from oil paints and white spirit. After 10 mins clean any unwanted marks with clean white spirit. If you are on FB have a look at Matt.E.Models. To get an idea or send me a message.
Good luck.
Matt.E

I assumed the point of the gloss coat is to prevent the acrylic to suck up all the wash. I tested the wash on some plain painted areas inside the tank and there the wash wash was sucked into the color like a sponge. But on this gloss coat it simply flows away and disappears.

I too suspect it's a bit too thin, but I assumed that Tamiya's own ready made wash would be good. The gloss coat was left to dry for perhaps 24 hours and the camouflage under that had maybe five days to dry.

I did not dampen the area with spirit before the wash, I just applied it onto a dry surface. It flowed so nicely so I thought that the spirit would just make it even thinner and harder to control.

Is your wash sufficently different in hue from the colours you are aplying it over?

Yes, it's dark brown, almost black. My model has a base of that german dark yellow along with some green and brown stripes. Most of the wash was applied on the yellow base.

first give a good shake to the wash,then Dump the area with white spirit or the thinner you prefere,put the wash and dont touch for 5min then you can clean,if you touch the wash a second time with a brush some time the brush soak back the wash,i never try Tamiya washes but if the wash is to thinn you can give a second coat when the first is dry or leave open the bottle for a while to leave the thinner evaporate but give a stir some time to avoid the surface layer to dry or pick with the brush the wash on the neck of the bottle,usually there have more pigments and less thinner

I prefer to mix my own washes or use Vallejo washes. Overall washes I use acrylic and pin washes I use oils, and I prefer to do it on a flat coat, I never did like how they turned out on a gloss coat.

I agree, seems due to too thin washes. Have you shaken the bottles thoroughly and then even more? and repeat often while using it?

Yes, I did shake it thoroughly. The bottom of the bottle was clear, no unmixed gunk.

Tamiya does label it a "panel accent" and not a generic wash, so maybe it's not really meant for anything else than strictly thin "ditches"?

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87131_133panel_accent/index.htm

Before I paint, weather, apply decals and give a model a final clear coat, I practise on an old kit. That way you can test any weathering methods or compatiblity issues without ruining the model.

The model isn't ruined in any way though, there are no weird reactions or damage to the underlying color. There simply isn't much in the way of shadowing.

Hers my process

Primer base (acrylic)
Shadow coat in black (Acrylic)
Base colour (acrylic)
Camo colour(acrylic)
Fading coat - usually lightened base coat (acrylic)
Semi gloss coat (acrylic)
Filter (enamel)
Pin washes (Dark mig enamel wash)
Streaking wash to certain vertical panels
Pigments
once happy with all the areas a coat of matt varnish to protect.

More or less what I have, except I've left out some of the coats (shadow, fading). Same chemicals too.

I find if you use to much of a gloss coat the pin wash wont 'stick'

That's perhaps what I see too. The wash flows *really* well. My surface is perhaps a bit too gloss, I think I maybe made the coat too thick.

So, to sum up, too glossy surface and too thin wash?

Tamiya's panel line wash is extremely thin. Dry a dark brown wash from MIG.

Sounds like it is.

I don't have access to MIG products here, the local shop has Tamiya and Vallejo. I'll give the Vallejo wash a shot, it seems thicker.

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-wash/family/29

Jan

You can make your own washes with either enamel paints or alternately oils thinned

Yeah, I know. That's on my list of things I need to try and learn. For now I'm happy to try out existing ready made solutions. Of course, this first solution didn't really work out too well, so maybe I'll end up mixing my own if the Vallejo thing doesn't work too well either.

As far as I know the panel line products are intended for aircraft and therefore I would expect them to be more subtle. But I have no experience with them.

Try with Vallejo and let us know

Jan, I use those Tamiya products. I found the Brown too light so I have settled for the Dark Brown. I make sure it is well mixed and stir from time to time during use. During application I'd make sure the surface I'm painting on is horizontal, though at times I'd move it about to get some of the wash to collect in certain areas or do one area twice. I'd wait for about an hour then clean the unwanted stains using a brush lightly dipped in thinner.

My guess is the same as the others I've read above -- the surface may be too glossy. Try doing it for another run, by that time the glossy quality of the surface would have been reduced.

Here's a shameless plug -- I haven't done anything on it except the Tamiya Dark Brown wash over a gloss coat:



I have tried the Vallejo Wash products as well, but I find it difficult to control so I use more as a filter.

Cheers,

Tat

That looks pretty fantastic! I think my surface is indeed too glossy, as it's way more shiny than that. Although I have not yet applied a wash all over, just in a few test spots.