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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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T-48 work. w/duckbill, Kaizen vs. Modelkasten
woodstock74
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2017 - 03:53 AM UTC
Looking to purchase some workable T-48 tracks with duckbill extenders and I'm running into issues finding Kaizen's duck bills in stock anywhere which has me contemplating Model Kasten's "all in one" T-48s with duck bill extenders. Any thoughts on how they compare to Kaizen's offerings? I'm not particularly versed in workables. The Model Kasten seem more readily available, and I'm only searching for one kit.
Das_Abteilung
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2017 - 06:41 PM UTC
I have surplus sets of both types of Kaizen duckbill I was going to list on eBay. Last time I listed them I had no takers. Let me know if you want them and we can come to an arrangement
woodstock74
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2017 - 07:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have surplus sets of both types of Kaizen duckbill I was going to list on eBay. Last time I listed them I had no takers. Let me know if you want them and we can come to an arrangement



PM'd you.
woodstock74
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Posted: Friday, February 24, 2017 - 08:17 PM UTC
I also should ask how the AFV Club T48s w/duckbills are? Will they work on the Tasca/Asuka sprocket? I've read about issues with some kit sprockets (Tamiya in particular). The AFV club are starting to look like a real option given cost and availability.
TheGreatPumpkin
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 07:55 PM UTC
Mike,
I've found the AFV club tracks to be a little wide. Panda Models (ex RHPS) does a really nice job. I will, however, give a piece of advice: make them semi-workable. Place two links side by side. Put a small drop of superglue on the right-hand center pin. Now slide and end connector on. Now, repeat the process for the other pin. The is will lock the end connectors onto one link ()the right-hand one), but still allow for flexibility of the overall assembly. HTH.
Regards,
Georg
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 09:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mike,
I've found the AFV club tracks to be a little wide. Panda Models (ex RHPS) does a really nice job. I will, however, give a piece of advice: make them semi-workable. Place two links side by side. Put a small drop of superglue on the right-hand center pin. Now slide and end connector on. Now, repeat the process for the other pin. The is will lock the end connectors onto one link ()the right-hand one), but still allow for flexibility of the overall assembly. HTH.
Regards,
Georg



Well for starters, thanks for the heads up regarding Panda Models.

http://www.shermantracks.com/about.html


Once I have my AFV Clubs in hand I'm sure that'll all make better sense. Right now I also have to pick up a set of T80s for my Super Jumbo Sherman I started ages ago (It's a what-if). Panda Models only makes tracks for the VVSS and I've fitted the HVSS suspension to my Super Jumbo Sherman.

Removed by original poster on 02/26/17 - 17:22:31 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 02/26/17 - 17:27:40 (GMT).
Wierdy
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 10:16 PM UTC
Bronco models make two types of duckbills too...
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 11:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Bronco models make two types of duckbills too...



Any good? Or, any idea how they compare to the AFV Club or Kaizen?
Wierdy
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Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 12:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

how they compare to the AFV Club or Kaizen?



I can't tell. Their track sets are good, although somewhat tedious to assemble:
http://the-sherman-shop.freeforums.net/thread/374/broncos-indi-sherman-tracks-guide
Das_Abteilung
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Posted: Monday, February 27, 2017 - 07:22 AM UTC
Mike asked me in a PM what I thought of the respective brand products. Having answered him, I thought this might be of wider interest in this thread. So here it is.

I like Bronco's engineering idea, but there will be lots of join lines to deal with - at least on runs where the edges of the links will be seen such as at the front and back round idlers and sprockets. That won't matter with their T62 links which were made of top and bottom plates riveted or bolted together with a join anyway. T62's can have end connectors. I like their T49 3-bar type and have several sets. AFV Club, Dragon and Kaizen links will have a mould line that needs to be removed where it can be seen. All have sprue attachments to clean up.

Bronco links have a "chassis" consisting of 2 link pins with end connectors attached. Each link has an inner and outer half which are then sandwiched over the pins. Hence the edge join lines. It's certainly stronger than relying on little pins moulded onto the links, as with Dragon and AFV Club - many people on forums bemoan this method. But the Bronco method makes joining runs after painting more difficult. I haven't worked this out yet, but I'm thinking of cutting the pins to leave short stubs that can be sprung into place and glued.

I think the Bronco method will however make making-up and shaping track runs easier as keeping them flexible seems easier. It seems to me that the AFV Club links will need to be assembled in the right shape as there will be a danger of twisting the pins off the links if you try to adjust them. I don't know how tightly they fit: you don't want to be drilling them all out.

With AFV Club, Bronco and I think Dragon, the duckbills are added separately to each end connector. The Kaizen method, as I'm sure you know, uses plastic links and connectors with wire pins - much like Fruilmodel metal links. Their duckbills are moulded on to the end connectors, simplifying construction. But each still has a tiny bolt head to attach. So, potentially, the Kaizen duckbills might fit the moulded end pins on AFV Club or Dragon links. I haven't tried it. They definitely won't fit Bronco.

Broken-off and bent duckbills were common: they weren't very durable. All brands give you the option of omitting them selectively or cutting them to show damage. Kaizen won't allow you to add them at odd angles to show bent ones.

There were actually 5 different types of duckbill; 1 cast in 1 piece, 1 pressed in 1 piece and 3 welded from 2 pieces. Only the pressed round-ended design could be fitted to existing end connectors. The others all required changing the whole end connector. In this scale the key difference, as Bronco and Kaizen both depict, is square or rounded outer ends.

I really don't like the idea of resin track sections from Verlinden and Accurate Armour that need to be constantly softened in hot water and bent to shape. I bought a Verlinden set with duckbills, but will be selling that off too.
woodstock74
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Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - 01:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mike asked me in a PM what I thought of the respective brand products. Having answered him, I thought this might be of wider interest in this thread. So here it is.

I like Bronco's engineering idea, but there will be lots of join lines to deal with - at least on runs where the edges of the links will be seen such as at the front and back round idlers and sprockets. That won't matter with their T62 links which were made of top and bottom plates riveted or bolted together with a join anyway. T62's can have end connectors. I like their T49 3-bar type and have several sets. AFV Club, Dragon and Kaizen links will have a mould line that needs to be removed where it can be seen. All have sprue attachments to clean up.

Bronco links have a "chassis" consisting of 2 link pins with end connectors attached. Each link has an inner and outer half which are then sandwiched over the pins. Hence the edge join lines. It's certainly stronger than relying on little pins moulded onto the links, as with Dragon and AFV Club - many people on forums bemoan this method. But the Bronco method makes joining runs after painting more difficult. I haven't worked this out yet, but I'm thinking of cutting the pins to leave short stubs that can be sprung into place and glued.

I think the Bronco method will however make making-up and shaping track runs easier as keeping them flexible seems easier. It seems to me that the AFV Club links will need to be assembled in the right shape as there will be a danger of twisting the pins off the links if you try to adjust them. I don't know how tightly they fit: you don't want to be drilling them all out.

With AFV Club, Bronco and I think Dragon, the duckbills are added separately to each end connector. The Kaizen method, as I'm sure you know, uses plastic links and connectors with wire pins - much like Fruilmodel metal links. Their duckbills are moulded on to the end connectors, simplifying construction. But each still has a tiny bolt head to attach. So, potentially, the Kaizen duckbills might fit the moulded end pins on AFV Club or Dragon links. I haven't tried it. They definitely won't fit Bronco.

Broken-off and bent duckbills were common: they weren't very durable. All brands give you the option of omitting them selectively or cutting them to show damage. Kaizen won't allow you to add them at odd angles to show bent ones.

There were actually 5 different types of duckbill; 1 cast in 1 piece, 1 pressed in 1 piece and 3 welded from 2 pieces. Only the pressed round-ended design could be fitted to existing end connectors. The others all required changing the whole end connector. In this scale the key difference, as Bronco and Kaizen both depict, is square or rounded outer ends.

I really don't like the idea of resin track sections from Verlinden and Accurate Armour that need to be constantly softened in hot water and bent to shape. I bought a Verlinden set with duckbills, but will be selling that off too.




Thanks for this Peter, very informative.
canopener5
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Posted: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 - 04:36 PM UTC
Go to scalemates, look up panda plastic 1/35 scale, worn t48 tracks. Awesome I've used these. They have duckbills very nice.you can't go wrong.

Also you get a good amount of spares. They used to have a website that you can buy Direct but I can't seem to find them. But I did find them on scalemate good luck.
woodstock74
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Posted: Friday, March 03, 2017 - 07:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Go to scalemates, look up panda plastic 1/35 scale, worn t48 tracks. Awesome I've used these. They have duckbills very nice.you can't go wrong.

Also you get a good amount of spares. They used to have a website that you can buy Direct but I can't seem to find them. But I did find them on scalemate good luck.



See their link above. I started to go the route of Panda Plastic but they wanted $18 for shipping. No thanks. In the end I settled on AFV Club, somewhat unenthusiastically, but they look like they'll do.
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