_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
How bad IS Tamiya's M-113???
b2nhvi
Visit this Community
Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 1,124 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 11:33 AM UTC
I want to burn up (pardon the pun.) the Zippo turret I have left from the Academy kit. Have a lead on a Tamiya kit for cheap. Not worried about the interior as it'll be buttoned up.
HermannB
Visit this Community
Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 12:13 PM UTC
The Tamiya is still quite good despite its age. I am a sworn fan of the kit, don`t mind the "better" Academy release. Tamiya of course need some detailing, so you can get the Legend Production update set.

http://www-legend.co.kr/portfolio/lf1325-m113detailing-set/

And myabe a better set of tracks.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 12:32 PM UTC
and you'll need to fill some holes, one inside and above each sprocket wheel and maybe one on the "belly" plate.
The roadwheels could be better but I think most M113 kits suffer in this area so it's not really worth thinking about.
/ Robin
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 09:47 PM UTC
I've built it a couple times when it was the only game in town. The first thing about the hull (if it matters to you) is that it's a very early M113. Has the Desoto gasoline engine, and the transmission only used for a short time period. None of these saw combat with the Army. I guess it'd be fine buttoned up. The Tamiya kit comes with the water steer gear box, and this is to be deleted when doing a Vietnam track. I cannot remember if the used the same differential (third member), and should know.

There were M113's without the ACAV turret in combat, so that's not important. The interior leaves something to be desired, but it's also a good start. Somebody sells an interior for the Tamiya kit. The interior is a little different with the flame thrower, but have only looked inside a zippo once or twice.

gary
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 11:10 PM UTC
There would be one or two minor details differing in the interior:




Frenchy
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 12:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Has the Desoto gasoline engine, and the transmission only used for a short time period. None of these saw combat with the Army.


I believe the Vietnam picture (from http://hht2nd11thacr.tripod.com/id2.html ) below shows the Chrysler 75M gasoline engine fitted to early M113's :



H.P.
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 03:14 AM UTC
Road wheel arms molded to the lower hull and not separate could be a turn off if you don't want to show it flat and level.
b2nhvi
Visit this Community
Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 1,124 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 06:32 AM UTC
Thanks All. Sounds like the Tamiya kit will work. I'm planing on building it buttoned up so engine / interior is not an issue. Plan is to build it as an 11th AR track with some fictitious art work. (Fahrenheit 451). The Academy ACAV kit is being used for a PAVN M-113 with a Type 63 , 107mm rocket launcher mounted on the roof during the Cambodian invasion / Viet-Sino war. I'e seen no evidence of this combo , but they did inherit M-113s when Saigon fell and had the Type 63s and PAVN is known for their cobbled together systems. (Like the M-101 , 105mm mounted on a Zil or Ural truck as SPA.) Oh! What differenes are there with the engine intake / cooling vents between the gas and diesel?
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 08:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks All. Sounds like the Tamiya kit will work. I'm planing on building it buttoned up so engine / interior is not an issue. Plan is to build it as an 11th AR track with some fictitious art work. (Fahrenheit 451). The Academy ACAV kit is being used for a PAVN M-113 with a Type 63 , 107mm rocket launcher mounted on the roof during the Cambodian invasion / Viet-Sino war. I'e seen no evidence of this combo , but they did inherit M-113s when Saigon fell and had the Type 63s and PAVN is known for their cobbled together systems. (Like the M-101 , 105mm mounted on a Zil or Ural truck as SPA.) Oh! What differenes are there with the engine intake / cooling vents between the gas and diesel?


Frenchey's photo sort of confirms a story I heard from my brother inlaw. He said the 1st Infantry brought over a had full of gasoline powered tracks. Few ever saw serious usage, and most were kept in the Headquarters troop. He told me that Alpha and Bravo 1/4 CAV never used them. Then he dropped the bombshell, and said they also brought a few gasoline powered M48's! All I can say is that none were in I-Corps for sure, and know of nobody that saw one in II-Corp. My guess is that there was less than 25 total for both the M113 and the M48.

You needn't date yourself till after the fall of SVN. The ARVN used them all thru the war (they might had had some gasoline powered tracks). On the otherhand, I never saw them with a zippo. Did they or did they not; I just don't know for sure.

I don't remember what the intakes looked like, but there were three different exhaust pipes used (maybe four?). Gasoline, diesel, and Israeli. Seems like the U.S. diesel pipe went almost strait up, while the other was bent downwards.
gary
b2nhvi
Visit this Community
Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 1,124 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 11:00 AM UTC
ARVNs did have some Zippos. I saw a couple photos in my research. Vietnamization.....
Frenchy
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 11:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh! What differenes are there with the engine intake / cooling vents between the gas and diesel?


Just check out this thread for some info :

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/172959&page=1

H.P.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, October 06, 2017 - 12:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

ARVNs did have some Zippos. I saw a couple photos in my research. Vietnamization.....


never said they didn't, but never saw them using one. Same could be said of the M114. I saw exactly one, and it was a serious mess.
gary
Jmarles
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Friday, October 06, 2017 - 05:27 AM UTC
AFV makes M113 tracks in both indy and band style. They are pretty cheap. The band ones aren't bad; I got some for my M577.
j76lr
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 06:30 PM UTC
its a good model !
Kenaicop
#384
Visit this Community
Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 08:42 PM UTC
They build up nice with some TLC, both not quite finished


Bravo1102
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 09:02 PM UTC
Any other company it would get torn apart as an outdated piece of trash. But, it's Tamiya so it gets a pass. Both Academy and Italeri are improvements with superior engine decks and suspensions but Tamiya is a fan favorite despite its age and flaws.
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 09:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Any other company it would get torn apart as an outdated piece of trash. But, it's Tamiya so it gets a pass. Both Academy and Italeri are improvements with superior engine decks and suspensions but Tamiya is a fan favorite despite its age and flaws.

There may be some parts that are better in Italeri kit, but overall it is very poor kit. The Academy kit is controversial - it has more parts and seemingly more details, but in most cases if some part is included in the Tamiya kit, it is better there: sharper details, more correct shape etc. Academy kit looks good from the distance, but up close all details are soft and in most cases more or less off accuracy-wise.
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 09:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

AFV makes M113 tracks in both indy and band style. They are pretty cheap. The band ones aren't bad; I got some for my M577.


The problem with earlier AFV Club tracks - both indi and band - is that the edges of links are way too thick. It just looks bad from the side. I used the band type tracks on my M113A3 model, but plan to replace them with new AFV Club tracks (released with new M113A1 kit), which have nice thin edges, although they are only suitable for late variants of M113, as the shape of rubber blocks is not good for earlier vehicles.
Dragon164
#226
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,909 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 12:01 AM UTC
Here is my Tamiya M113 with the supplied tracks!

Cheers Rob.
afvaficionado
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: February 16, 2010
KitMaker: 160 posts
Armorama: 159 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 07:08 AM UTC
How come the inner shield on the rear mudguards are not present? - https://www.shapeways.com/product/DKQF5TFR8/1-18-m113-mudguards?li=shareProduct -

Mal
ComaBlack
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 19, 2010
KitMaker: 194 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 09:15 AM UTC
New AFV Club track set isn't much better. Go Fruil or MK or whatever your favorite is,
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 11:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

New AFV Club track set isn't much better. Go Fruil or MK or whatever your favorite is,

I have several sets of those as well, but I also have those new AFV Club tracks already, so I will use them to improve the old build (as they are not horrible), while keeping better ones for new models.
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 11:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

How come the inner shield on the rear mudguards are not present? -

Because it is approx. 40 years old kit?...

More puzzling is why the new AFV Club kit does not include them. Luckily they're easy to add.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 03:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

How come the inner shield on the rear mudguards are not present? -

Because it is approx. 40 years old kit?...

More puzzling is why the new AFV Club kit does not include them. Luckily they're easy to add.


Pawl;

When you got a brand new ACAV, one of the first things you did after filing the gas tank and checking oil was to remove all the mud guards. There was a pile of mud guards in Chu Lai that would have filled a rail road box car! You went from there to see the head dude at the Sea Bee shack for a roll of chain link fencing and a dozen engineers stakes. After that it was on to the Americal Main post PX for beer and soda.

gary
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 04:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

How come the inner shield on the rear mudguards are not present? -

Because it is approx. 40 years old kit?...

More puzzling is why the new AFV Club kit does not include them. Luckily they're easy to add.


Pawl;

When you got a brand new ACAV, one of the first things you did after filing the gas tank and checking oil was to remove all the mud guards. There was a pile of mud guards in Chu Lai that would have filled a rail road box car! You went from there to see the head dude at the Sea Bee shack for a roll of chain link fencing and a dozen engineers stakes. After that it was on to the Americal Main post PX for beer and soda.

gary


Why did you remove the mud guards?
Did they collect too much mud and block the tracks or something?
Curious as h*ll
/ Robin
 _GOTOTOP