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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Minart M3 Lee with Interior
jwest21
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Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 11:13 PM UTC
I didn't see this posted, so- PMMS has a full interior Lee early listed from Miniart http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/newkitnews/miniart.html

(forgive me if I am late to the party)
young_sven
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Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 11:15 PM UTC
Sweet!

What great news.!
JSSVIII
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 01:12 AM UTC
It will be interesting to see how this compares to the Takom release.
TankManNick
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 01:15 AM UTC
With its 'roomy' insides and huge side doors this has to be a perfect subject for an interior!
JSSVIII
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 01:25 AM UTC
I wonder if there is the possibility of seeing a ram from Miniart at some point. Would there be enough common parts between the 2 to make it practical for them?
27-1025
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 01:52 AM UTC
After having built the Takom kit and waiting for the M31, wondering how MiniArt will engineer all of the hull plates.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 03:02 PM UTC
It's going to look precisely like the cover art, skewed perspective and all.

I dread to see how many parts they break the bogie units into. On the other hand I really hope they do a partial engine compartment at least as much you can see through the vent.
ericadeane
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 07:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I wonder if there is the possibility of seeing a ram from Miniart at some point. Would there be enough common parts between the 2 to make it practical for them?

A Ram tank would certainly be welcome but it has a big cast upper hull. If we see an M3A1 , then maybe a Ram might follow IMHO
Bravo1102
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I wonder if there is the possibility of seeing a ram from Miniart at some point. Would there be enough common parts between the 2 to make it practical for them?

A Ram tank would certainly be welcome but it has a big cast upper hull. If we see an M3A1 , then maybe a Ram might follow IMHO


This is Miniart, you could see a Ram kangaroo with sitting passengers.
TANKSIMOM
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:18 PM UTC
Nice one Miniart

How about the following

M3A5 (Grant II)
Twin GM 6-71 diesel variant of riveted hull M3. Although it had the original Lee turret, it was referred by the British as Grant II. 591 built.

M31 Tank Recovery Vehicle (Grant ARV I)
Based on M3 chassis, with dummy turret and dummy 75 gun. A 60,000 lb (27,000 kg) winch installed.

M33 Prime Mover
jwest21
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice one Miniart

How about the following

M3A5 (Grant II)
Twin GM 6-71 diesel variant of riveted hull M3. Although it had the original Lee turret, it was referred by the British as Grant II. 591 built.

M31 Tank Recovery Vehicle (Grant ARV I)
Based on M3 chassis, with dummy turret and dummy 75 gun. A 60,000 lb (27,000 kg) winch installed.

M33 Prime Mover


I think the US used the M3A5 on Makin island in the Pacific, too...that's one I'd like to do
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I wonder if there is the possibility of seeing a ram from Miniart at some point. Would there be enough common parts between the 2 to make it practical for them?


The commonality is in the lower hull and suspension.

If you have a riveted Wright-engined hull, 3 piece differential housing and early VVSS bogies, you have the basis for a Ram. The Lee also provides some parts for the auxiliary turret but not the turret shell itself as the Ram version had no side viewports.

That said, this gets you the Ram Is and the earliest Ram IIs. By the middle of Ram production, the Sherman was in production and you see the Rams with the later Sherman-based 3 piece differential covers. Then, later that same year, the last 40-50% of Rams had the later Sherman VVSS bogies with the trailing return roller. Most of these also did away with the auxiliary turret in favour of a ball mount.

All in all, getting a Ram configuration just right is a wee bit tricky. The design evolved over time with a great many features coming and going over the approx. 2 years they were in production.

Paul
Bravo1102
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Nice one Miniart

How about the following

M3A5 (Grant II)
Twin GM 6-71 diesel variant of riveted hull M3. Although it had the original Lee turret, it was referred by the British as Grant II. 591 built.

M31 Tank Recovery Vehicle (Grant ARV I)
Based on M3 chassis, with dummy turret and dummy 75 gun. A 60,000 lb (27,000 kg) winch installed.

M33 Prime Mover


I think the US used the M3A5 on Makin island in the Pacific, too...that's one I'd like to do



Actually the majority of Grant II in British service had Grant turrets. There are pictures of them, the IWM tank is one as were the South African Grant observation tanks. But most are hard to identify since the the rear deck is often not visible or obscured with storage.

The tanks on Makin island were standard M3 with late features including chevron track, ventilators and grouser storage (And probably solid road wheels)
jwest21
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 10:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Nice one Miniart

How about the following

M3A5 (Grant II)
Twin GM 6-71 diesel variant of riveted hull M3. Although it had the original Lee turret, it was referred by the British as Grant II. 591 built.

M31 Tank Recovery Vehicle (Grant ARV I)
Based on M3 chassis, with dummy turret and dummy 75 gun. A 60,000 lb (27,000 kg) winch installed.

M33 Prime Mover


I think the US used the M3A5 on Makin island in the Pacific, too...that's one I'd like to do



Actually the majority of Grant II in British service had Grant turrets. There are pictures of them, the IWM tank is one as were the South African Grant observation tanks. But most are hard to identify since the the rear deck is often not visible or obscured with storage.

The tanks on Makin island were standard M3 with late features including chevron track, ventilators and grouser storage (And probably solid road wheels)



Oh cool- so that means I probably can use the upcoming Takom Lee late
dhines
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 04:46 AM UTC
Looks very nice. A Ram Kangeroo would be an incredible release.
Das_Abteilung
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 04:55 AM UTC
I understood that the M3A5 was designated Grant II, whereas the M3A3 was designated Lee V.

There were also many "Grant Diesel" with the British-pattern turret but the Guiberson radial diesel engine in place of the Continental because of shortages. AFAIK these were externally identical to the Continental-engined version (even Hunnicutt is silent on that point) but were painted with a large red "D" on the rear upper hull plate. They did not gain a separate US Ordnance or UK designation, surprisingly. The same happened with some US M3 - and allegedly M3A1 - too.

There's nothing on the MiniArt website about any M3 kits, and they're still working flat out churning out variants of the T-54/55.

Yes, a Ram would be nice in plastic and with their penchant for full interiors a Kangaroo would be a simple stretch. As would a Wallaby ammunition vehicle for the Sexton. Maybe an ARV too? However, covering the Ram variations fully would need 3 different upper hull mouldings and at least 2 different turret shells plus both M3 and M4 style bogies.

Here's a very looooong shot. What about a Yeramba? Never heard of it? Australia's only-ever domestic SPG. Otherwise known as "Ordnance, Quick Firing, 25 pdr Mark 2/1, on Mounting Self propelled 25 pdr (AUST) Mark 1, on Carrier, Grant, Self Propelled 25 pdr (AUST) Mark 1". Only about 2 dozen built post-war, converted from late M3A5 into a sort of copy of the Sexton. At least 2 still exist, at Puckapunyal and Cairns. The B/W top photo is the prototype, on an M3 hull.



Jmarles
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 07:52 AM UTC
Still no bergepanther!
MrCompletely
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 12:28 PM UTC
There were scale plans for the Yeramba (though 1/32nd I think) for a scratch-build in Military Modelling back in either the late 70's or early 80's. I have it, but not here with me in Japan unfortunately.
RickC5
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 05:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice one Miniart

How about the following

M3A5 (Grant II)
Twin GM 6-71 diesel variant of riveted hull M3. Although it had the original Lee turret, it was referred by the British as Grant II. 591 built.

M31 Tank Recovery Vehicle (Grant ARV I)
Based on M3 chassis, with dummy turret and dummy 75 gun. A 60,000 lb (27,000 kg) winch installed.

M33 Prime Mover



It would be so simple for Takom or Miniart to make a "2-in1" kit of the M31 and the M33, as the M33 was basically an M31 with the turret and boom deleted. Of course, a full interior would be required, as the M33's interior is totally exposed with the turret gone. All we can do is hope.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 10:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It would be so simple for Takom or Miniart to make a "2-in1" kit of the M31 and the M33, as the M33 was basically an M31 with the turret and boom deleted. Of course, a full interior would be required, as the M33's interior is totally exposed with the turret gone. All we can do is hope.



Considering that Takom would have to make an entire interior (they don't have one now), I'd say that it would be the opposite of simple for them to create what you described.

KL
gmat5037
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Posted: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 05:37 PM UTC
Sorry, but the 193rd TB M3 Stuarts and M3 Lees at Makin were diesel powered. Hunnicut's Sherman book has a small photo of M3 Lees at Makin that shows the rear hull. You can see that the rear plate extends down much further than on the M3 Lee. I don't think that it was a waterproofing mod.
See this photo from wiki.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:M3_Medium_Tanks_in_the_Battle_of_Makin.png
If you examine photos in the Hunnicut Stuart book, there is a photo of a 193rd Stuart sunk in a water filled crater or perhaps anti tank hole in the road. One photo shows that tank from the rear and you can just make out that the exhaust pipes to the air filter are longer and go closer to the middle of the rear deck.
So apparently the 193rd used both light and medium diesel tanks at Makin.
Sorry it's been years since I researched this point and my Hunnicut books are packed away.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 06:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry, but the 193rd TB M3 Stuarts and M3 Lees at Makin were diesel powered. Hunnicut's Sherman book has a small photo of M3 Lees at Makin that shows the rear hull. You can see that the rear plate extends down much further than on the M3 Lee. I don't think that it was a waterproofing mod.
See this photo from wiki.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:M3_Medium_Tanks_in_the_Battle_of_Makin.png
If you examine photos in the Hunnicut Stuart book, there is a photo of a 193rd Stuart sunk in a water filled crater or perhaps anti tank hole in the road. One photo shows that tank from the rear and you can just make out that the exhaust pipes to the air filter are longer and go closer to the middle of the rear deck.
So apparently the 193rd used both light and medium diesel tanks at Makin.
Sorry it's been years since I researched this point and my Hunnicut books are packed away.


Not only the rear plate but the stack is over the engine deck hatch vents as opposed to the air intake on a radial engined Lee. Good to see that there are such clear rear views. The Hunnicutt book only shows one front view of a tank. I used the diagrams to make the diesel deck for a Grant II. The ancient Tamiya Lee actually has the rear and exhausts if a diesel powered Lee but the wrong engine deck. Sadly the diesel engine deck of a Lee is considerably different from an M4A2.
easyco69
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Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 07:52 PM UTC
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