_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M19a1 from Bronco.
knewton
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,217 posts
Armorama: 1,092 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 08:09 PM UTC
Korean War Duster, for those interested. Here soon. As seen at PMMS.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 09:07 PM UTC

/ Robin
canismalus
#465
Visit this Community
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 398 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 01:11 AM UTC
Awesome. Let‘s hear it for early Cold War vehicles (well, the M19 did serve at the tail end of WWII, but still)! Speaking of which, wasn‘t AFV Club going to put out a Centurion Mk. 3? That would be excellent.

Jerry
bankmannl
Visit this Community
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 02:29 AM UTC
Hi guys,
On Track-Link.com there are some examples of the options how to finish this model.
One version is in Merdc colors !!
Some mistake made with the M42 Duster ?
I don’t think the M19a1 was used in the seventies ?
Ge


Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 03:56 AM UTC
The M19 was type classified in late 1945, but never saw service actively overseas until the Korean War. It was based on the M24 Chaffee light tank chassis. It was long out of service by the time the MERDC camouflage scheme came along, having been replaced by the M42 Duster. To call the M19 a “Duster” would not be correct— I had an original 1945 M19 manual, and nowhere does it mention the name “Duster”. But it was the predecessor of the M42, and used a very similar turret arrangement. The ammo storage arrangements were quite different though. As for the MERDC scheme, it might be a late ROC version or some other FMS recipient. The interesting thing about the M19 was the engine placement, which is why the M19 turret is surrounded by ammo storage cans. The early versions used the all metal type track. The box art has the later rubber pad type, but both types were seen in Korea. I’ve waited a long time for one of these, and at one point was going to convert an AFV club M42 and a Bronco M24 into an M19, but those ammo cans were just too hard to do around the AFV club turret. Thank you Bronco!
VR, Russ
canismalus
#465
Visit this Community
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 12, 2014
KitMaker: 398 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 05:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The M19 was type classified in late 1945, but never saw service actively overseas until the Korean War.



I stand corrected. After reading it somewhere a long time ago (not on Wikipedia, but that article on the M19 wrongly says as well that it was used in WWII), I always thought that a few were used in the closing few weeks of the war in Europe like the M26, but you‘re right, Russ, it came into service immediately thereafter. Thanks for the clarification.

Jerry
Bravo1102
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 06:04 AM UTC
It's going to include both tracks as an option! The camouflaged one is labeled "dragon killer" which could be ROK or Nationalist Chinese? I know they lasted a long time in foreign service. I have seen a picture of camouflaged M19 in service in the 1980s but can't remember where.

Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 08:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It's going to include both tracks as an option! The camouflaged one is labeled "dragon killer" which could be ROK or Nationalist Chinese? I know they lasted a long time in foreign service. I have seen a picture of camouflaged M19 in service in the 1980s but can't remember where.




The debut of the M42 "Duster" was in the early 60s, with a combat debut in 1968 in Vietnam. The M42 was definitely used at Hue in that year, so if there were any M19s in the inventory they would have had to been in the NG, and most, if not all of them would have been replaced by 1972, as the M42 Duster was found in NG ADA units by that time. The M24 chassis was very long in the tooth, and well out of the US inventory, having been replaced by the M41 by that time. And this period was well before Army-wide MERDC implementation. So, I can't imagine seeing a US Army MERDC M19, except maybe in a memorial display outside a museum, armory or base entrance someplace. I remember in the late 70s and early 80s it was quite a "fad" to repaint everything in MERDC, even memorial equipment-- I've seen an "Easy 8" Sherman painted in faded MERDC scheme outside an Infantry Brigade HQ at Fort Lewis as late as 2002! I do know the ROC was using M19s, but not sure when they were retired. I also believe the ROKA used them for a time. Perhaps those two countries had a similar scheme. Vaguely, in the back of my mind, I think I recall some M19s in Bosnia (from Yogoslavian or Croatian stocks-- via Turkey, Greece and Macedonia) which might have had similar camo schemes, but I'm getting old and I could be mistaken too.
VR, Russ
ALBOWIE
Visit this Community
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 03:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi guys,
On Track-Link.com there are some examples of the options how to finish this model.
One version is in Merdc colors !!
Some mistake made with the M42 Duster ?
I don’t think the M19a1 was used in the seventies ?
Ge





I am pretty sure the Merdc version is South Korean
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 04:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi guys,
On Track-Link.com there are some examples of the options how to finish this model.
One version is in Merdc colors !!
Some mistake made with the M42 Duster ?
I don’t think the M19a1 was used in the seventies ?
Ge





I am pretty sure the Merdc version is South Korean



Yep-- there's a whole feature on the Bronco kit over on The Modelling News, showing the four color schemes, two from the Korean War and one from Hanau FRG in 1954-- all in OD. The fourth scheme does not give any date or location other than "winter verdant MERDC". However, that example is certainly not a US Army scheme--there's an accompanying photo of the "MERDC" scheme depicted in the kit profile (no location is given, but it looks like it's in a private collection and obviously not an official US scheme).

Link is here:
http://www.themodellingnews.com/2018/06/bronco-knock-dust-off-old-favourite-new.html#more

The CAD drawings look great. We'll have to see what's actually offered in the kit, but my only gripe so far would be the lack of canvass covers for the extra barrel assemblies. In action, the springs and muzzles would seldom be seen without the covering bags. If everything is included in the kit, it will be very nice, but I suspect it will be rather pricey.
VR, Russ
berwickj
Visit this Community
Fyn, Denmark
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 07:24 PM UTC
This is great news! I'll be picking one up when they drop!
Bravo1102
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 08:40 PM UTC
Thanks Russ for the link. That may be the picture I remember. It's a privately owned vehicle and might be the one they measured and examined. So they put in the scheme to make the owner happy?

The 200ADA which was once NJ NG and then New Mexico were the M42 users for the 50th armored division. I have photos of brand new M42s on parade in the 1950s from the 1956 division yearbook.
m75
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 666 posts
Armorama: 661 posts
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 03:06 AM UTC
The 200th ADA was also the dedicated ADA organization for the 40th Division (Infantry), California Army NG in early 80s. Desert scheme MERDC M42s on the tank trails of Camp Roberts were quite the throwback to a history nut like me. Damn near lost a leg to a passing Duster after tripping on barbed wire next to the trail....
alchemymike
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: December 14, 2011
KitMaker: 208 posts
Armorama: 192 posts
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 03:53 AM UTC
Does the release of the M-19 mean a possible M-52? I think thats the designation..hope Bronco considers this and the M-53 & M-55
I keep crossing my fingers for Atomic Annie
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does the release of the M-19 mean a possible M-52? I think thats the designation..



I think you mean the M41 Howitzer Motor Carriage (a.k.a. M41 Gorilla) that was also based on the M-24 chassis.

Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does the release of the M-19 mean a possible M-52? I think thats the designation..hope Bronco considers this and the M-53 & M-55
I keep crossing my fingers for Atomic Annie



The M44 and M52 were departures from the basic design, and based on the M41 Walker Bulldog tank chassis reversed-- the same chassis as the M-42. The M53 and M55 was based on the M-47 chassis. But these designs were a far cry from the mid-engined M19 based on the M24 Chaffee hull. The track arrangement of those vehicles was significantly different, as they were a forward engine design-- "reversing" the vehicle, and putting the gun compartment where the driver's positions would normally be. Dragon released a 1/72 scale Atomic Annie a few years back, and the old Renwal 1/32 scale Atomic Annie has been re-released several times now, the last time was 2011 in the Monogram-Revell SSP release. I feel your pain, and agree, it would be great to have updated 1/35 versions of all of these vehicles, but I don't see them competing well against all the Tiger, Panther, and other "German" stuff that seems so popular now. I for one never thought a kit of the M19 would be forthcoming though-- and here it is! But an Atomic Annie, done correctly in 1/35 scale, would probably sell for well over $200 at today's market value. I suspect this M19 will be coming in at $50++ based on the detail level I see in the CAD drawings. I have the Dragon Atomic Annie, and have built multiple Renwal Atomic Annie's over the years, both of these kits are lacking in many areas (Dragon's kit is well detailed and still quite large in 1/72 scale, but the "Black Label" folks have seen fit to mold all of the service platforms into the frame, making it impossible to pose the gun in firing position accurately without significant "surgery"-- ugh)-- and it still comes in at a pricey $70+-- double ugh for shoddy work at a high price point. But Bronco might be able to release an M37 or an M41 based on this chassis-- we'll see I guess-- Bronco seems to be the master of the M24 series right now.
VR, Russ
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 02:30 PM UTC
It looks like Bronco has redone the boxart and have correctly deleted the "Duster" moniker.

Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 04:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It looks like Bronco has redone the boxart and have correctly deleted the "Duster" moniker.




Is it possible they are reading this blog? If they delete or update the MERDC profile then I'll believe it!

VR, Russ
 _GOTOTOP