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Tamiya Panzer IV ausf H Early - Options?
kunjuro
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Joined: October 27, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 05:45 AM UTC
Hi folks. I'm planning on building Tamiya's old Panzer IV ausf H early production. Got a question for those who've built the kit. I've asked this question a few years ago I think, but I'm hoping to get a bit more info.

I know that there are several accuracy issues with the kit - mainly with the final drive housings being for the ausf G, and the schurzen and its railings being a mid-production example.

Has anyone done research on what can you make with the kit's decal options? I know that except for the one portrayed by the boxart, the rest of them don't have bolted on armor and have zimm. I was wondering what options I have out of the box (with or without zimm will be fine. I can use this kit to hone my zimm skills). I'm planning to practice my painting skills on this kit before working on the much more expensive Academy mid production version. Thanks all!
AgentG
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 07:22 AM UTC
How about an early H model in Sicily or Italy?

Bison decal sheet 35066 offers options.


G
18Bravo
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 07:40 AM UTC
Not quite out of the box, but you might consider a Syrian version. There's a conversion set for the Tamiya kit, but most of the the items can be scratch built. Making a single color scheme interesting is definitely a way to practice your painting skills.
marcb
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 08:22 AM UTC
Do you mean kit 35209?

The final drive covers are correct. Only the 1st 30 vehicles of the Ausf H had final drive covers as on the Ausf G.

The 24 PD vehicle on the instructions in Italy didn't have zimm.
It's overall dark yellow with a dark grey gun barrel.It does have the early schurzen and rails.

https://panzerphotos.com/pictures/00058.jpg

Regards,

Marc
kunjuro
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 02:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

How about an early H model in Sicily or Italy?

Bison decal sheet 35066 offers options.


G



Thanks for the tip! I don't know if I'm gonna spend money on the kit, but the decal options are quite interesting! I've been meaning to join the Italian Campaign later this year in the forums, might go for this option.


Quoted Text

Not quite out of the box, but you might consider a Syrian version. There's a conversion set for the Tamiya kit, but most of the the items can be scratch built. Making a single color scheme interesting is definitely a way to practice your painting skills.



I've been meaning to try a Syrian vehicle, but yeah - my scratch building abilities are virtually non-existent. I don't have plasticard at home too sadly. However, a Syrian Panzer IV is being sold locally for 52 USD by DML. Do you know what color they use for the camo? First time Ive seen that weird grey-ish, greenish color.


Quoted Text

Do you mean kit 35209?

The final drive covers are correct. Only the 1st 30 vehicles of the Ausf H had final drive covers as on the Ausf G.

The 24 PD vehicle on the instructions in Italy didn't have zimm.
It's overall dark yellow with a dark grey gun barrel.It does have the early schurzen and rails.

https://panzerphotos.com/pictures/00058.jpg

Regards,

Marc



Yup, it's 35209. The dark-grey gun barrel + dunkelgelb body does look interesting, but the early schurzen precludes an OOB build. I was hoping to use what's in the box and maybe at zimm. Do you happen to know more about the #633 vehicle with green spots? I've seen photos of it, and it looks to have zimm with the standard front plate w/o bolted on armor.
d111298pw
#456
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Joined: September 22, 2016
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 12:38 AM UTC
Vomag built the first batch of 69 Ausf. H's in May 1943. The first 30 had the 8/B.W. (Ausf. G) Final Drives. All Krupp and Ni-Werk production, ( starting in June 1943), along with the remaining Krupp production, all had the 9/B.W. Final Drives. The Tamiya version would represent one of these first 30 Vomag vehicles.

The Series I schurzen was installed through September 1943. The switch to Series II happened in that same month. So, you can use an aftermarket version for the Ausf. G as the rail attach points, to the hull, are the same on the Ausf. H. This set from Aber would do the job.

http://www.aber.net.pl/detal,485.html

The kit is a mixed bag. It has the original final drives from May 1943. It has the Series II schurzen from September 1943. So the first two decal options are not realistic as they would require the Series I schurzen. The third option (Autumn 1943) needs the upgraded final drive and zimmerit to go with the included schurzen version.

kunjuro
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 01:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Vomag built the first batch of 69 Ausf. H's in May 1943. The first 30 had the 8/B.W. (Ausf. G) Final Drives. All Krupp and Ni-Werk production, ( starting in June 1943), along with the remaining Krupp production, all had the 9/B.W. Final Drives. The Tamiya version would represent one of these first 30 Vomag vehicles.

The Series I schurzen was installed through September 1943. The switch to Series II happened in that same month. So, you can use an aftermarket version for the Ausf. G as the rail attach points, to the hull, are the same on the Ausf. H. This set from Aber would do the job.

http://www.aber.net.pl/detal,485.html

The kit is a mixed bag. It has the original final drives from May 1943. It has the Series II schurzen from September 1943. So the first two decal options are not realistic as they would require the Series I schurzen. The third option (Autumn 1943) needs the upgraded final drive and zimmerit to go with the included schurzen version.




This is exactly the information I needed. Thank you very much!

I can actually forgive the drive housing error as it will be mostly hidden by the Schurzen + running gear once those are in place. The wrong set of schurzen though, is a bit more noticeable. So, the third decal option (4th panzer) is doable except for the error in the drive + the lack of zimm?
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 02:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is exactly the information I needed. Thank you very much!

I can actually forgive the drive housing error as it will be mostly hidden by the Schurzen + running gear once those are in place. The wrong set of schurzen though, is a bit more noticeable. So, the third decal option (4th panzer) is doable except for the error in the drive + the lack of zimm?



I'm doing the same on my kit. The final drive is not an issue as it will be mostly hidden. I have the Tamiya Ausf. J zimmerit sheet (12650) as it will work fine on the Ausf. H. I also got the Eduard zimmerit schurzen (35499) to replace the kit parts.

Initially, the schurzen was coated with zimmerit as well. After about the first month, the zimmerit was dropped from the chassis schurzen, but still applied to the turret schurzen.

I'll need to get an aftermarket decal sheet to get something that matches reality.
kunjuro
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 02:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

This is exactly the information I needed. Thank you very much!

I can actually forgive the drive housing error as it will be mostly hidden by the Schurzen + running gear once those are in place. The wrong set of schurzen though, is a bit more noticeable. So, the third decal option (4th panzer) is doable except for the error in the drive + the lack of zimm?



I'm doing the same on my kit. The final drive is not an issue as it will be mostly hidden. I have the Tamiya Ausf. J zimmerit sheet (12650) as it will work fine on the Ausf. H. I also got the Eduard zimmerit schurzen (35499) to replace the kit parts.

Initially, the schurzen was coated with zimmerit as well. After about the first month, the zimmerit was dropped from the chassis schurzen, but still applied to the turret schurzen.

I'll need to get an aftermarket decal sheet to get something that matches reality.



Thanks a bunch! Considering doing the same. One last thing - as you said, since this vehicle was amongst the first ausf Hs - the schurzen on both the hull and turret should get zimm? Do you happen to have a online reference showing the vehicle? I really appreciate the help.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 03:49 AM UTC
Zimmerit wasn't factory applied until September 1943. Field application was approved in January 1944.

For my build, I will be converting the early to a mid-production version (late September '43 build). That's why I'm using zimmerit.

If you plan to only do an early build, then skip the zimmerit and get the Aber schurzen set, or other aftermarket Series I set. Then you can more accurately build one of the first 30 off the assembly line.

If you can, get a copy of Panzer Tracts 4-3. It's a great reference for the Ausf. H and J.
marcb
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 04:37 AM UTC
@ Mark,

The final drives in the kit are for the regular Ausf H (part A5). The Ausf G part doesn't have the cast in ribs.)
See this walkaround of an Ausf G (just at the bottom)
https://www.scalenews.de/sd-kfz-161-pzkpfw-iv-ausf-g-panzer-iv-walkaround-881/

Kit instructions
https://www.scalenews.de/sd-kfz-161-pzkpfw-iv-ausf-g-panzer-iv-walkaround-881/

The Ausf H final drive would only take the drive sprocket with open spokes, just as the Ausf G final drives woud only take the sprockets with solid spokes.

Source: Panzer Tracts 4-3
marcb
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 05:06 AM UTC
Maybey this one, in Italy?
http://ww2live.com/sites/default/files/images/20162906212711.jpg

With these decals
http://www.star-decals.net/35-857.html

Regards,

Marc
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 05:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

@ Mark,

The final drives in the kit are for the regular Ausf H (part A5). The Ausf G part doesn't have the cast in ribs.)
See this walkaround of an Ausf G (just at the bottom)
https://www.scalenews.de/sd-kfz-161-pzkpfw-iv-ausf-g-panzer-iv-walkaround-881/

Kit instructions
https://www.scalenews.de/sd-kfz-161-pzkpfw-iv-ausf-g-panzer-iv-walkaround-881/

The Ausf H final drive would only take the drive sprocket with open spokes, just as the Ausf G final drives woud only take the sprockets with solid spokes.

Source: Panzer Tracts 4-3



Marc,
You are correct. My brain cells had the Final Drive Covers switched. Thanks for catching my error.

Here is a view of the two versions from Panzer Tracts 4. You can clearly see differences.


The Tamiya kit includes both the Ausf. G Drive Sprockets (parts A18/A21) and the standard Ausf. H Drive Sprockets (parts A8/A11)

As Marc says, Tamiya only includes the 9/B.W. (Ausf. H) Final Drive Cover. If you want to be accurate, then you need the 8/B.W. (Ausf. G) Final Drive Cover to use the "Early" Drive Sprockets (parts A18/A21).

Vomag built 69 vehicles in May 1943. The first 30 were with the Aus. G Final Drive Cover and Drive Sprocket. Vehicles 31-69 had the upgraded units. So, you can still build an "early" version with parts A5 and A8/A11.

Of course, the issues with the schurzen still has to be resolved if you want to build an early version. Series I is required and not included in the kit. Only the mid-production Series II is included in the kit.

Sorry for the confusion.

Marc, thanks for the links.

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