_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Chinese Type 69 Tank
long_tom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
Armorama: 2,005 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 05:53 AM UTC
It seems the Chinese strictly made it as an export tank. How good or bad was it?
KurtLaughlin
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 06:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It seems the Chinese strictly made it as an export tank.



I don't think that is correct.


Quoted Text

How good or bad was it?



It's a T-54/55 hull and turret with improvements in firepower and mobility.

KL
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 06:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It seems the Chinese strictly made it as an export tank.



I don't think that is correct.
.....

KL




Me neither ....
Type 69 is an upgraded Type 59 which is a Chinese clone of T-54/55, i.e. type 69 is essentially an upgraded T-54/55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_69_tank
and
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/China/Type-69.php
also Jane's Armour and Artillery 1987-88

/ Robin
long_tom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
Armorama: 2,005 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 09:09 AM UTC
That's one on me. I had assumed that China in the 1980's was getting rid of its lemons.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 10:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That's one on me. I had assumed that China in the 1980's was getting rid of its lemons.



In the 1980's they were taking the lemons into service
Some sources say that the Type 69 was first seen in public during some parade in 1982.

Type 59's were being upgraded in the 1980's .....
Type 69-II was developed in 1983 ....
Development of the Type 69-II resulted in the ->
Type 79 which turned up in a parade in October 1984 ...
Type 80 had the first prototypes completed in 1985, development was completed in 1988 (still very close to a T-55 even if the number and positions of roadwheels had changed)
Type 85, early in 1989, brought larger changes, turret is welded compound armour instead of cast steel. A few different variants, 105 and 125 mm guns
Type 90-II was revealed late in 1991 and brought significant changes. By mid 1997 it had not yet entered volume production ...
That is the last one included in Jane's Armour and Artillery 1997-98.

The Type 96 / Tpe 96A / Type 96B is the final evolution of the Type 88 design
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_96_tank
see Type 88 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_80/88_main_battle_tank
The Type 96 seems to be the very last of the "lemons"
"In 1997, the upgraded Type 85-IIM prototypes were accepted into PLA service as the Type 88C/Type 96"

After that comes the Type 99 variants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99_tank
"The development of China's domestic third generation MBT was started in 1989, under China's eighth five-year plan. In the early 90's China produced one of its second generation prototypes, the Type 90-II series. The Type 90-II was designed by studying the T-72 tank.[6] The chassis was to be based on the T-72's hull but with Chinese subsystems.[7] The Type 90-II had a 125mm smoothbore cannon with an autoloader, modular composite armor and a centered driver position.[6][8] While the Type 90-II series ultimately did not enter PLA service, it saw success as an export tank and was built under license in Pakistan as the Al-Khalid.[6][9][10]"

Maybe some of the lemons are still in service in training units?
/ Robin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Ground_Force

Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 10:32 PM UTC
Some interesting info in this thread- thanks to the posters.

I just wanted to add that China only really started to purge its 'lemons' after the Gulf War in 1990/1991. They were shocked by the technological advances of many of the Coalition forces and understood they needed to re-evaluate and begin a process of upgrading both equipment and doctrine.

Also- a lot of China's export equipment was not evaluated by its end users on whether it was good or bad, as during the Cold War it was often the only thing they could get. If, say, the USSR was not keen to sell a country something or it was too expensive then the Chinese often happily stepped into their place and supplied things at much keener rates.
DickJones
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: November 12, 2014
KitMaker: 44 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 - 08:14 AM UTC
I think the Type 69-II was a fairly good workhorse for their clients, e.g. Saddam using it against the Iranians. Slat armor and optics can't hurt compared to a regular T-55.

Takom has a Type 69II-C command variant, which may have been the peak of that particular 55 issue.
 _GOTOTOP