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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Vietnam M109
stef29
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 10, 2012
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 08:55 AM UTC
I want to do a Vietnam era M109 and researched as much as I can including some great posts here. I am still not clear on a valid approach. The Tamiya kit is expensive, I can get an Italeri M109 A1/A2 very cheap but I understand its an older kit. AFV Club has an A2 but also has the Rochev which I understand is an A1, no idea what mods were made to it. There is a barrel depot M126 barrel that isnt too expensive.

Question: Can I build an accurate M109 with the AFV club A2 or Rochev using the barrel depot barrel? Or will I need other parts from the Italeri (or scratch)?

With the savings over the Tamiya kit I might also pick up a black-dog interior even though that won't be accurate I'm hoping its good enough for a hatch view (thoughts on that?).
GTDeath13
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 921 posts
Armorama: 919 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 09:06 AM UTC
Get the simple M109A2 from AFV Club. It has all the parts you will need except the shorter barrel.

MR modellbau also makes some resin conversion barrels for early m109 variants, you might want to check them out too.

There is no comparison between the AFV Club kit and the Italeri ones (the Tamiya is an Italeri rebox).

The only drawback of the AFV club kit is the rubber tracks, if you do not like rubber tracks.

EDIT: Check MR Modellbau MR-35466
RLlockie
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United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 09:42 AM UTC
There was a build of a Viet Nam M109 in the AMPS journal Boresight a few years ago. The author is a current or former gunner and took the trouble to examine a BER damaged vehicle so it had not been upgraded since the conflict. I think he used the AFV Club kit with some Italeri parts for the earlier version.

There might be more info about it on the AMPS website.
stef29
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 10, 2012
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 09:46 AM UTC
Thanks, I’m glad it’s that easy. Appreciate pointing me to the mrmodelbau gun, looks like a better option.

It’s a shame AFV club doesn’t include their own individual link tracks in the kit, I’ll definitely replace the rubber ones.
jfeenstra
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 24, 2014
KitMaker: 342 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 10:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I want to do a Vietnam era M109 and researched as much as I can including some great posts here. I am still not clear on a valid approach. The Tamiya kit is expensive, I can get an Italeri M109 A1/A2 very cheap but I understand its an older kit. AFV Club has an A2 but also has the Rochev which I understand is an A1, no idea what mods were made to it. There is a barrel depot M126 barrel that isnt too expensive.

With the savings over the Tamiya kit I might also pick up a black-dog interior even though that won't be accurate I'm hoping its good enough for a hatch view (thoughts on that?).


The Tamiya kit IS the Italeri kit, it is a simple re-box with new link and length tracks, decals and the sprue from Tamiya's M113 ACAV kit with figures, accessories and the ACAV shields.

If you've looked at the box, you will clearly see the Italeri logo on it. As well, any 1/35 Tamiya kit that does not have a 35XXX stock number is not an original kit, in this case the stock code is 37013.

See here for a look at the Tamiya kit (Hobby Search is the best source of box contents on Tamiya kits):
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10224099
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 12:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Question: Can I build an accurate M109 with the AFV club A2 or Rochev using the barrel depot barrel? Or will I need other parts from the Italeri (or scratch)?


No, it is a little more that just the barrel change to backdate the AFV Club M109A2 to an M109. You will also need to redo the back of the turret to have two separate doors and remove the extended ammo storage box. It also had an unarmored pantel cover that is not present in the A2 kit. There are also a few smaller changes like the type and position of the travel lock arm on the front. All these parts are in the Italeri M109 kit.


Quoted Text

There was a build of a Viet Nam M109 in the AMPS journal Boresight a few years ago... I think he used the AFV Club kit with some Italeri parts for the earlier version.


The AMPS article is a great guide to follow. It was in Boresight Magazine (AMPS publication) from Jan/Feb 15; it shows exactly how to do it using the AFV Club M109A2 and parts from the Italeri M109. He also builds a full interior.
stef29
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 10, 2012
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 05:47 PM UTC
Thanks everyone.

Robert and Gino, I'll be grabbing the Boresight article, sounds like what I really need.

Gino, thanks for the additional info. I see an italeri straight m109 kit and an E4/G/A1/A2 kit. It's this later kit I see for cheap. The other is not cheap, I'm guessing this is the one tamiya has used and sellers know it. Would you know if the E4/G/A1/A2 kit has the right turret parts?

HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 01:15 AM UTC
Yes, the M109 E4/G/A1/A2 kit has all the parts to build a straight M109. That version has been out of production for many years, so if you can get it, it would be good.
tedward
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Taipei, Taiwan / 台灣
Joined: July 22, 2002
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 40 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 02:27 AM UTC
AFV Club's M109A2 doesn't have bolts for swimming kit on the hull (both sides and front) but Italeri have. Should all M109 SPH service in Vietnam have the bolts ? Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz made a fantastic/great M108 conversion in Galleries page of his site : https://vodnik.net/. Maybe could be for reference.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 03:16 AM UTC
Yes, all the flotation gear has to be added. You will have to add the lugs to the front glacis and lower row of bolts back to the sides of the hull. You will also need to add back the boomerang-shaped cover and connectors just forward of the turret on the front hull as well (all in the Italeri M109 kit).



Rear showing turret rear w/two doors.



Good shot showing unarmored pantel (PANagraphioc TELescope - sight) cover (raised plate on a pole on top left of turret).
13M201182
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Michigan, United States
Joined: November 28, 2005
KitMaker: 164 posts
Armorama: 110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 03:53 AM UTC
Damn!! Now I want to build a 109 now!!!!
stef29
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 10, 2012
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 10:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes, the M109 E4/G/A1/A2 kit has all the parts to build a straight M109. That version has been out of production for many years, so if you can get it, it would be good.


Thanks Gino, no surprise that you have expertise on this topic! I can grab that italeri kit for super cheap, once I get that and the boresight article in hand I'll plan out what else I'll need and get to work. Love the pictures.
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