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Query about Cromwell markings
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 08:37 AM UTC
To be specific,a tank from the 2nd Northants Yoemanry, "A" squadron during Operation Epsom. What would the markings be? This was the Division recce Bn at that time.
Google has only made things more confusing.
Help???
J
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 09:06 AM UTC
Jerry,


I'm away from my references but on the hull front (and indeed the rear) there would be the Div sign of a Taurus Pursuant (ie the black bull on a yellow background), the arm of service sign of the Blue and Green square (Green over Blue)with the number "45" in white superimposed. There might be a bridge classification plate somewhere on the hull front - black on yellow - but as I say, I'm absent from by books; I can't quite remember but there will be a serial number somewhere on the hull or turret - this will identify an individual number so God help you if you're ever subject to such purists.

The Squadron sign is much simpler being, I believe (as outlined in my PM to you of, I think, 11 Mar), a white triangle applied to the turret sides.

Sorry to be less than my usual accurate self; hopefully, if nothing else, this will facilitate some digging elsewhere.

Brian
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 11:03 AM UTC
Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 10:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".



Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.

Brian
jrutman
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Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 01:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".



Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.

Brian



Yes,of course,no worries. I was just trying to explain the shortcomings of my current existence. I do remember you giving m info just now where it is!

I was wondering if the "A" squadron had any other specific markings other than the white triangle on the turret? I saw a Cromwel on line that had a whit"A" hastily painted on the glacis and so....
J
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 11:37 AM UTC
Hi Jerry,

Brian has pretty much covered the markings, but he mentions the bridge classification plate; Jean Bouchery's "The British Soldier", volume 2, shows this as a yellow disc with white surround and white "27" for Cromwells. it's located on the front right lower hull (as you sit in the drivers seat). The other thing to watch out for is vehicle names; most if not all British cavalry and yeomanry (like National Guard) units used vehicle names and they weren't always random. A squadron might use names beginning with "A" for example. Alternatives were battle honours or place names local to the regiment. You can only find these out by researching the unit I'm afraid!
BootsDMS
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Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 02:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".



Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.

Brian



Yes,of course,no worries. I was just trying to explain the shortcomings of my current existence. I do remember you giving m info just now where it is!

I was wondering if the "A" squadron had any other specific markings other than the white triangle on the turret? I saw a Cromwel on line that had a whit"A" hastily painted on the glacis and so....
J



Jerry,

Sorry - way off topic - but I just love the term "shortcomings of my current existence". That sums me up to a tee!

Brian
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 04:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jerry,

Brian has pretty much covered the markings, but he mentions the bridge classification plate; Jean Bouchery's "The British Soldier", volume 2, shows this as a yellow disc with white surround and white "27" for Cromwells. it's located on the front right lower hull (as you sit in the drivers seat). The other thing to watch out for is vehicle names; most if not all British cavalry and yeomanry (like National Guard) units used vehicle names and they weren't always random. A squadron might use names beginning with "A" for example. Alternatives were battle honours or place names local to the regiment. You can only find these out by researching the unit I'm afraid!



I have done the google thing for the unit,nothing there concerning nicknames. There are pics of vehicles but no time frame or units are mentioned.
Thanks for the comments though. Always thankful to find out I am not speaking to the wall.
J
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 04:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".



Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.

Brian



Yes,of course,no worries. I was just trying to explain the shortcomings of my current existence. I do remember you giving m info just now where it is!

I was wondering if the "A" squadron had any other specific markings other than the white triangle on the turret? I saw a Cromwel on line that had a whit"A" hastily painted on the glacis and so....
J



Jerry,

Sorry - way off topic - but I just love the term "shortcomings of my current existence". That sums me up to a tee!

Brian



Well yes,my advancing age has certainly led to all manner of "comings" being "shortened" I'm afraid! LoL
J
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Friday, March 22, 2019 - 02:57 AM UTC
Jerry,
Does it have to be "A" Squadron? There appears to be clear photos of a "C" Squadron tank, with serial T167714, called "Agamemnon". It has a weird black stripe marking on the mantlet and what looks like black stripes on the side of the turret (rubber strips to prevent the attachment of sticky bombs or some leftover waterproofing from landing?). But it gives you a complete set of markings for a specific tank. Since 2 Northants Yeomanry was disbanded in August 1944 and it's members drafted elsewhere, any photos are likely of the "Epsom" or "Goodwood" battles.
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, March 22, 2019 - 03:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jerry,
Does it have to be "A" Squadron? There appears to be clear photos of a "C" Squadron tank, with serial T167714, called "Agamemnon". It has a weird black stripe marking on the mantlet and what looks like black stripes on the side of the turret (rubber strips to prevent the attachment of sticky bombs or some leftover waterproofing from landing?). But it gives you a complete set of markings for a specific tank. Since 2 Northants Yeomanry was disbanded in August 1944 and it's members drafted elsewhere, any photos are likely of the "Epsom" or "Goodwood" battles.



My focus has been on the Epsom battles and the dio I am working on concerns that and has a Cromwell in it. So it has to be the Northants and specifically "A" squadron as they were the only ones ready during that time. They advanced southwest of Cheux and were chewed up pretty badly. The rubber "zimmeret"was applied sometime between Epsom and Goodwood,so no good for my purposes but thanks for the input buddy!
J
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