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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
some more Normandy pics
Biggles2
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 02:49 AM UTC






















I find the following pic of considerable interest as it show two vehicles in the same pic, under the same lighting conditions, but the DUKW in a VERY brownish OD, and the 3/4 ton in the more usual OD:


Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 07:57 AM UTC
Thanks for these! Great photos, although I suspect some are post-D-Day, as late as Operation Cobra. But welcome none the less. I was encouraged yesterday by my local ABC affiliate radio station which took to broadcasting interviews with local D-Day veterans, and most importantly broadcast a replay of actual radio broadcasts from Tuesday, June 6th 1944 at least once every hour. It is interesting to note this station was an NBC affiliate in 1944 as ABC did not exist, but as they mentioned, reporters could be broadcasting from any affiliate, and it would be played nation-wide in 1944, so in effect, NBC, CBS, RKO, BBC, or any Allied broadcaster could be heard broadcasting on any radio network. That sure wouldn’t happen today!

In our local area, we had a veteran whose photo Robert Capra captured at Omaha Beach- in his interview he said he was “hit” 13 times on the morning of June 6th coming ashore— in the helmet, backpack, entrenching tool, and boot, but was not seriously wounded. He was a Squad leader, and in his squad of 12, by noon, only 3 members of his Squad had survived the assault.... truly they were the products of “The Greatest Generation”.
VR, Russ
Vierville
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 08:17 AM UTC
Biggles2, thank you so much for posting these fantastic Normandy photos. Absolutely fascinating. They are greatly appreciated!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 10:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text























I find the following pic of considerable interest as it show two vehicles in the same pic, under the same lighting conditions, but the DUKW in a VERY brownish OD, and the 3/4 ton in the more usual OD:





Hi, Biggles!!!

Thank You Very Much for posting these wartime photos of the Normandy battle areas and of the US & German Vehicles, the GIs, the surrounding areas of the conflict and of course some of the native French populace! How and where did you get hold of these photos?

BTW- Regarding the different OLIVE DRABS in the color photo-

First of all, THERE IS NO SUCH THING as "the more usual OD"...

Second- Haven't I been saying FOR YEARS that there is NO SUCH THING as a "uniform Olive Drab" ever since I first joined in with you guys..? The "Panzer Boys" who always say that "OD is ALWAYS ONE and the SAME, and the US/Allied fans should take note:

HERE IS YOUR PROOF!!! (So here's a big, long, drawn-out RASPBERRY for you!!!)

If you still doubt, go back and read "First of all" and "Second-" over again, and get your noses up real close to your screens and take another look at the color photo that Biggles so kindly posted...

You can have different shades of my beloved Olive Drab on three different US vehicles in a dio that only contains three different vehicles! You can even have several different shades of OD on the same vehicle, because different components of the same vehicle were manufactured in different factories, ergo, different batches of paint were used, and these different batches of paint were manufactured in different paint factories!

And then, there are the different Field-applied camouflage schemes, and replacement parts, sometimes even whole Turrets, to consider. Olive Drab is all the same or "the usual"..?

So you can take your TAMIYA XF-62 and do something untoward with it!!!

Thank You, Biggles! You just made my weekend!
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 10:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text























I find the following pic of considerable interest as it show two vehicles in the same pic, under the same lighting conditions, but the DUKW in a VERY brownish OD, and the 3/4 ton in the more usual OD:





Hi, Biggles!!!

Thank You Very Much for posting these wartime photos of the Normandy battle areas and of the US & German Vehicles, the GIs, the surrounding areas of the conflict and of course some of the native French populace! How and where did you get hold of these photos?

BTW- Regarding the different OLIVE DRABS in the color photo-

First of all, THERE IS NO SUCH THING as "the more usual OD"...

Second- Haven't I been saying FOR YEARS that there is NO SUCH THING as a "uniform Olive Drab" ever since I first joined in with you guys..? The "Panzer Boys" who always say that "OD is ALWAYS ONE and the SAME, and the US/Allied fans should take note:

HERE IS YOUR PROOF!!! (So here's a big, long, drawn-out RASPBERRY for you!!!)

If you still doubt, go back and read "First of all" and "Second-" over again, and get your noses up real close to your screens and take another look at the color photo that Biggles so kindly posted...

You can have different shades of my beloved Olive Drab on three different US vehicles in a dio that only contains three different vehicles! You can even have several different shades of OD on the same vehicle, because different components of the same vehicle were manufactured in different factories, ergo, different batches of paint were used, and these different batches of paint were manufactured in different paint factories!

And then, there are the different Field-applied camouflage schemes, and replacement parts, sometimes even whole Turrets, to consider. Olive Drab is all the same or "the usual"..?

So you can take your TAMIYA XF-62 and do something untoward with it!!!

Thank You, Biggles! You just made my weekend!



Not sure anyone doubts there were different shades of OD, and if they do they'd be wrong-- for all the reasons Dennis has said, and one more important reason as well-- the US Army, up until the initiation of CARC paint in the late 80s, had a tendency to use gasoline to thin paint when normal paint thinners were unavailable. This automatically changed the shade of OD, and other paint as well. Combined with different lots, manufacturers and numerous repaints, you could find different shades on the same vehicle.
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 10:44 AM UTC
Hi, Russ!

Thank You Very Much for your additional info, regarding the gasoline being used as paint thinners. I forgot to mention that...

Mea Culpa...
barkingdigger
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 11:08 AM UTC
In addition to the variations in OD paint, the DUKW may well have a thicker coating of road dust clinging to it, making it look more brown. The front end of the truck in the foreground looks like it might have been wiped clean by folks leaning on it as a makeshift table, revealing the green under the dust...

But it's all good, as it means we can make more visually-interesting models!
Biggles2
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 11:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Hi, Biggles!!!

Thank You Very Much for posting these wartime photos of the Normandy battle areas and of the US & German Vehicles, the GIs, the surrounding areas of the conflict and of course some of the native French populace! How and where did you get hold of these photos?


You're all very welcome! I downloaded these (and many more) from a French site some 20 years ago. The site has disappeared, or at least I can't find it, long ago. A few computers later, and after a couple of viruses, I thought I had lost all the pics - several hundred of them - until I just found them on a long-lost thumb drive! They are now on Imgur and I will be posting more every day until they are all here.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 04:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I downloaded these (and many more) from a French site some 20 years ago. The site has disappeared, or at least I can't find it, long ago.



I believe it was probably "Archives Normandie 1939-1945". When the site closed down in 2013 for lack of funds, all the period pics that were hosted there (5000+...) were then gathered by Michel Le Querrec and Patrick Peccatte (who corrected many erroneous captions with the help of other Internet users) and used to create a new site, Photosnormandie.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosnormandie/

Michel Le Querrec sadly passed away last January.

http://clioweb.canalblog.com/tag/photosnormandie

H.P.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 09:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I downloaded these (and many more) from a French site some 20 years ago. The site has disappeared, or at least I can't find it, long ago.



I believe it was probably "Archives Normandie 1939-1945". When the site closed down in 2013 for lack of funds, all the period pics that were hosted there (5000+...) were then gathered by Michel Le Querrec and Patrick Peccatte (who corrected many erroneous captions with the help of other Internet users) and used to create a new site, Photosnormandie.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosnormandie/

Michel Le Querrec sadly passed away last January.

http://clioweb.canalblog.com/tag/photosnormandie

H.P.



Hello, Henri-Pierre, and Biggles!

These are FANTASTIC Archives! Too bad all of these photos couldn't have been collated and published in a Photo-Album Hard-Cover Book- This could have been a fantastic reference book for modelers of this period of World War II...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 09:38 PM UTC
As a small side note:

Readers of this thread should note how many of the GIs during this vital stage of WWII were wearing what I like to call the "1941-VE-Day 1945" uniform items, i.e, the 1941/'42 "Parsons" Jackets, HBT or OD Wool Trousers AND the M1938 Leggings. This is something that I've harped about for years, because the model and figure manufacturers seem to pay an undue amount of attention to the M1943 articles of clothing. Not EVERYONE got this issue of clothing. What's more, not to take anything away from our Paratroopers, but it seems to me that there are more US Paratrooper figures and sets than there are of regular, good old Infantry figures and sets. I've written and emailed the various model and figure manufacturers, requesting more US infantry in the M1941/'42 Clothing, to no avail... That's a HINT, people...

(Also wrote and emailed the model and figure manufacturers, requesting more British and Commonwealth Infantry dressed in their later-war kit and "Tortoise Shell" Helmets- More HINTING)
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 09:48 PM UTC
Look who's happy to have been captured alive and seemingly without serious wounds


The GI's still have to continue fighting ...

Hint to diorama builders, prisoners can be happier than those who captured them
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 09:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Look who's happy to have been captured alive and seemingly without serious wounds


The GI's still have to continue fighting ...

Hint to diorama builders, prisoners can be happier than those who captured them



Hi, Robin!

This is certainly true! My Mom's Onkel Ludwig, whom I've written about countless times here on ARMORAMA, was captured along with his co-members of their Pz.Kpfw.IV, by American Troops in early 1945, and they couldn't have been happier to FINALLY be out of this war! They were treated well and FED with US Field Kitchen food, (which may not have been the best ), and they were also given GI-ration chocolate and Lucky Strike cigarettes, which they were more than happy to get, indeed!
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2019 - 10:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Look who's happy to have been captured alive and seemingly without serious wounds



I guess things would have quite different in a similar situation on the Eastern Front...

H.P.
exgrunt
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 02:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Not sure anyone doubts there were different shades of OD, and if they do they'd be wrong-- for all the reasons Dennis has said, and one more important reason as well-- the US Army, up until the initiation of CARC paint in the late 80s, had a tendency to use gasoline to thin paint when normal paint thinners were unavailable. This automatically changed the shade of OD, and other paint as well. Combined with different lots, manufacturers and numerous repaints, you could find different shades on the same vehicle.
VR, Russ



Not sure I follow. For purposes of OD variation on US vehicles during WW2, the only variation was caused by slightly different types of OD paint being applied at the factory during manufacturing and rest assured, the factories weren't using gasoline to thin this paint. They were held to a very precise specification on paint finishes. There was also very little re-painting of vehicles in the field. Typically, they had a pretty short life span once deployed (either wore out or were lost in combat) and were simply scrapped and replaced. Although there are always exceptions to the rule, this wasn't the German army. If a vehicle wore out, it wasn't refurbished, repainted, etc, it was simply replaced with a new one.
27-1025
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 04:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I downloaded these (and many more) from a French site some 20 years ago. The site has disappeared, or at least I can't find it, long ago.



I believe it was probably "Archives Normandie 1939-1945". When the site closed down in 2013 for lack of funds, all the period pics that were hosted there (5000+...) were then gathered by Michel Le Querrec and Patrick Peccatte (who corrected many erroneous captions with the help of other Internet users) and used to create a new site, Photosnormandie.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosnormandie/

Michel Le Querrec sadly passed away last January.

http://clioweb.canalblog.com/tag/photosnormandie

H.P.



Thank you for sharing that link. Scrolling through the pictures now. Amazing collection of images. Gives a sense of how massive an operation this was.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Not sure anyone doubts there were different shades of OD, and if they do they'd be wrong-- for all the reasons Dennis has said, and one more important reason as well-- the US Army, up until the initiation of CARC paint in the late 80s, had a tendency to use gasoline to thin paint when normal paint thinners were unavailable. This automatically changed the shade of OD, and other paint as well. Combined with different lots, manufacturers and numerous repaints, you could find different shades on the same vehicle.
VR, Russ



Not sure I follow. For purposes of OD variation on US vehicles during WW2, the only variation was caused by slightly different types of OD paint being applied at the factory during manufacturing and rest assured, the factories weren't using gasoline to thin this paint. They were held to a very precise specification on paint finishes. There was also very little re-painting of vehicles in the field. Typically, they had a pretty short life span once deployed (either wore out or were lost in combat) and were simply scrapped and replaced. Although there are always exceptions to the rule, this wasn't the German army. If a vehicle wore out, it wasn't refurbished, repainted, etc, it was simply replaced with a new one.



The Allies had a lot of equipment for sure, but it's a myth that vehicles were simply "scrapped" as they were damaged or worn out. There were entire Ordnance units in each Division and at various levels all the way up to Corps level and beyond that kept things running. And much of the equipment was stockpiled in England for two years before the invasion. While in the field, repaints were done on equipment, and there are several photos which show that process. I was just reading about the repair battalions in France which were charged with collecting, salvaging and repairing knocked out Sherman tanks, and placing them back into service. Many of these tanks were repaired utilizing components of other damaged tanks, and then repainted. Often, paint supplies were mixed (as I have experienced myself in more modern times). MOGAS has been a staple thinner since before WWII, and it will change the shade of paint from the original as well. I learned to use MOGAS as a thinner from our WWII Veteran Troop 1SGT, who served with the 2AD in France-- and he recounted repainting with both a brush and an airgun (when available) when they had the opportunity. His comment to us at the time was nobody wasted time trying to requisition thinner when MOGAS was around.
VR, Russ
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