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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Panther F Camouflage
Catsrcool
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 04, 2018
KitMaker: 32 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 06:41 PM UTC
I am building a Dragon what if Panther F.
I have been looking at what possible paint schemes it might have had.
Here https://panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage
it says "On 20 December 1944, it was ordered that a Dunkelgrün base coat, with a hard-edge pattern of Dunkelgelb and Rotbraun should be used"
And that's it. Anyone have information on what this may have looked like please?
Do they mean something like this?:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fagtom.eu%2Fimg%2Fcms%2Fsplinter.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fagtom.eu%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F25-pojazdy-niemieckie-z-ii-ws&docid=Qk78s3m3o4llwM&tbnid=_-piVeUcflsH-M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjakbSA5dviAhVJ1xoKHVrPAdwQMwhqKA0wDQ..i&w=564&h=273&bih=1248&biw=1717&q=late%20war%20german%20tank%20camouflage&ved=0ahUKEwjakbSA5dviAhVJ1xoKHVrPAdwQMwhqKA0wDQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 02:38 AM UTC
Either of those are possible, but consider that the combat was becoming increasingly urbanized. Maybe try using colors and patterns similar to the "Berlin Brigade":

https://laststandonzombieisland.com/2017/09/05/the-royal-tank-regiment-is-having-a-1980s-throwback-but-its-not-for-a-parade/a-chieftain-mark-10-in-the-distinctive-camouflage-of-the-british-army-berlin-brigade-tank-museum-brgade-included-18-cheiftans-with-camo-adopted-1983/

TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 03:11 AM UTC
Here is an example.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwisxN-K19ziAhXB7Z4KHWziC1UQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scalemates.com%2Fkits%2Ftakom-2120-panther-g-mid-production-with-steel-wheels-2-in-1--1194119&psig=AOvVaw1DDGnwj1nblQd7hn_Ftpwq&ust=1560179331468639

Remember overall dark green, with red and tan oversprayed and in a hard edge pattern.

Another example.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/takom-2121-panther-g-late-production-with-ir-and-antiair-armour--1194120

These are Panther G examples but the order was still in place so The Panther f would have the same scheme.


bots1141
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 14, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 03:20 AM UTC
Catsrcool
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 04, 2018
KitMaker: 32 posts
Armorama: 32 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 04:53 AM UTC
Thank you for the replies.
404NotFound
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: March 08, 2007
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2019 - 05:01 AM UTC
Actually, a semi-realistic camo finish is not as far-fetched as it may seem.

You are likely familiar with the photo of the Schmalturm at the Daimler-Benz plant which already had a camo paint job — one that follows the typical late war D-B pattern closely.

There is also a blurry photo of a Panther F/G hybrid that surfaced, and again, if I understand this correctly, it also came from D-B.

It doesn't seem to this layman that D-B finished Panthers in the ordered overall olive green scheme, but continued to the very end with their distinctive pattern.

BUT, NO RED PRIMER!!! Can we please stop with the red turrets, barrels, hatches and various do-dads?

I mentioned this before, but I cannot imagine the Germans with their dwindling numbers of panzers and factory production sending them out painted conspicuously like some circus vehicle with fire-engine red parts here and there.

(They used a zinc oxide primer at D-B near the end.)
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2019 - 05:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


BUT, NO RED PRIMER!!! Can we please stop with the red turrets, barrels, hatches and various do-dads?




Please, yes.
thenorm
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New York, United States
Joined: July 13, 2010
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Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 - 03:14 AM UTC
Orders were indeed that new vehicles were to be base coated in Olivgrun from the factory as of early 1945, with camouflage applied as per pre-designed camouflage patterns that were to be issued later, but these patterns never were put out, and the transition to Olivgrun never fully was conducted. I imagine the patterns issued would have been pretty similar to the existing factory camo schemes as of the end of 1944. It also seems that some of the factories that did transition to Olivgrun used variations of the 44 patterns, just based in the different color.
404NotFound
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: March 08, 2007
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Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 - 05:13 AM UTC
That's my belief. Examining the camouflaged Schmarturm photo, my guess is that it's a olive green base with the dark yellow and brown tightly over-sprayed.

So this begs the obvious question: was this Schmalturm actually attached to a hull?
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 - 06:27 AM UTC
The Panther F was produced by Daimler Benz, so I'd extrapolate from their pattern for Panthers during March 1945. Wavy patches in yellow and brown over a green base coat, hard edge.
404NotFound
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 - 01:32 PM UTC
Again, I have to wonder if a few Panther Fs did not see combat.

I mentioned the camo finish of the one turret. The other seems to be in the delivery finish of olive green.

There were two that I am aware. Or so we are told.

Am I to believe that the Red Army, who took this factory told the Anglo-Americans, "Here, there are only two and you can each take one. We don't want any."

I am thinking there had to be more and they were spirited away to the USSR in the typical secretive fashion. Perhaps completed vehicles were promptly seized from the factories and streets and sent to the USSR for testing, and are now lost to history.

I also mentioned this elsewhere: Was D-B in the habit of painting camo finishes on hulls and turrets separately, or was the camo applied to a near-completed tank?
TopSmith
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Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 - 02:04 PM UTC
There was nothing about The F model, other than a range finder, that was unique and "keep secret" about it. Standard well known gun and hull. The turret shape was new but not revolutionary, closer to a Henschel Tiger II turret front. We had G models so we really had all we needed to know. They still had G models to finish so this was just the start of the new turret production.
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