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Normandy hedgerow reference
Sean50
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Manche, France
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Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 11:05 PM UTC
Hello there

A friend of mine has started out making films and has just finished one covering the Norman hedgerows, an oft-mentioned feature of the battles here in 1944.
It's half an hour or so, and well worth a look from a model-making as well as historical perspective:

http://youtu.be/J1dKsmV3fIU

Cheers

Sean
cheyenne
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Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 11:25 PM UTC
Very , very cool Sean . Extremely helpful reference . Well put together and it's nice to see rolling footage for a change to accompany stills found on the internet .
Will definitely be using this for an upcoming project I've got swimming around in my melon .
Frenchy
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:35 AM UTC


Thanks for sharing, Sean (and hats off to Paul )

H.P.
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 02:36 AM UTC
Wow Sean!!! Thanks a bunch for sharing this extremely well mad,informative and useful video.
Tons of info here.
The only thing I would have added is the fact large sections of the Commonwealth zone of operations were flat and wide open farm fields.
J
Sean50
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 04:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


The only thing I would have added is the fact large sections of the Commonwealth zone of operations were flat and wide open farm fields.
J



I believe that will be addressed in a future film. Paul is really only just starting ou and learning as he goes but I think this hedgerow film bodes well for the future.

I'll pass on all the feedback... thanks
Biggles2
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


The only thing I would have added is the fact large sections of the Commonwealth zone of operations were flat and wide open farm fields.
J


East of the Orne, the land is fairly flat farm land all the way to the Bourquebus Ridge, where Montgomery made his costly armored offenses. West of the Orne, all the way to the Atlantic, was progressively broken and with progressively heavier bocage.
Nate_W
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:29 PM UTC
I'm currently working on a very important diorama that contains a Norman Hedgerow. I've been looking for everything I can get my hands on to make mine as accurate as possible, even going as far as asking botany and horticulture subreddits and forums on advice and identifications. One thing I haven't got an answer on is a particular tree that seems to show up a lot in photos of Norman hedges. It's very tall and extremely thin with branches that only protrude at the top and in a short radius. I'll keep working on that though. This came at the most perfect timing for me. Thank you very very much.
Biggles2
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:57 PM UTC
Do you mean these?:

I asked that same question a couple of months ago and got some strange answers. I don't know what species of tree that is, but it seems to be being overtaken by some kind of parasitic growth like mistletoe.
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 03:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


The only thing I would have added is the fact large sections of the Commonwealth zone of operations were flat and wide open farm fields.
J


East of the Orne, the land is fairly flat farm land all the way to the Bourquebus Ridge, where Montgomery made his costly armored offenses. West of the Orne, all the way to the Atlantic, was progressively broken and with progressively heavier bocage.



Very large sections of terrain west of the Orne and Odon were flat and fairly free of hedges. Check out many pics taken during Epsom or,the attack on Bretteville,etc,south of the Caen Highway. Very flat,no bocage.
You can check it even now by flying over with your mouse on google earth.
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 03:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I asked that same question a couple of months ago and got some strange answers.



https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/277898#2339606

;)

H.P.
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 03:48 AM UTC
If the lower branches have been cut off, I don't think it was for firewood - there's plenty of other local trees available for that. I would suggest that, because these trees appear to being growing in rows, they may be lining roads (which are invisible in the photos because of photo angle, and bushy obstacles), and the lower branches have been removed so that the trees could be planted closer together than would otherwise have been possible. Unless they are, indeed, poplars, which do not have a large branch spread, with some sort of parasitic growth (ivy, for instance) choking off any lower growth.

Edit: on closer examination, the top branches of those trees don't grow the way poplar branches do...so must be a different species of tree.
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 05:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Very large sections of terrain west of the Orne and Odon were flat and fairly free of hedges. Check out many pics taken during Epsom or,the attack on Bretteville,etc,south of the Caen Highway. Very flat,no bocage.


Google Earth is good for a general geographic view, but does not depict topo features well. East of the Orne the ground is generally very flat and rarely exceeds 43 meters elevation. On the west side of the Orne, north of a line from Caen to Bayeux is still fairly flat, then gradually drops to almost sea-level being a swampy wet-land around Carentan. South of the line Caen - Bayeux the ground dramatically rises to the "Suisse Normande", or, Norman Switzerland, and the highest peak - Mt. Pincon - in the area which was a major action during the "Operation Bluecoat". This area also contains Bocage and hedgerows.
Just coincidentally, the line following the R84 (Route des Estuaries, on which are: Villers BOCAGE, Villy BOCAGE, and Noyers BOCAGE) all the way to Brettville-sur-Odon and Caen, has a mix of open farm-land, but also plenty of smaller fields and roadways hedgerow lined. Maybe your definition of Bocage isn't the same as Hedgerow, but Wikipedia defines them as the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocage

Photos are an important source for reference but they only depict where the photographer was in that space and time. There seems to have been more AFPU personnel imbedded in the armor units than in infantry units - hence more pics of armor-friendly terrain than infantry un-friendly terrain.
I will certainly agree that Bocage/Hedgerow country got progressively heavier and thicker closer to the Atlantic coast and along the Cotentin Peninsula where US troops were fighting.
Removed by original poster on 10/06/19 - 18:31:09 (GMT).
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 07:50 AM UTC
Some useful shots of Bocage/Hedgerow country:
Not British troops but neat photo:

https://i1.wp.com/historytotallynaked.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/US-soldiers-walk-through-a-Bocage-exit.jpg?fit=1370%2C567

Unfortunately I can't post individual pics from here, but scroll down to the Churchill AVRE:
http://dereksweetoys.com/1944-bocage-pictures/

https://d-dayrevisited.co.uk/wp-content/old/images/veterans/ron-pollitt11.jpg

https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10395256a/df3c994d/northcliffe-collection-wwii-shutterstock-editorial-10395256a.jpg

Here's an interesting history on the battle for Cristot, about half way between Bayeux and Caen:
https://erenow.net/ww/normandy-gold-beach-inland-from-king-june-1944/8.php
The author makes an interesting observation of the terrain (which may apply elsewhere in Normandy) that recently local farmers have removed/rooted out many bocage/hedgerows - maybe that is why they are scarce on Google Earth views.
Another nice shot of a random hedgerow:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tnayrb/2952653144

Another one:
https://fromnormandy.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/img_3182.jpg

A bunch here, but some in England (good enough for modelling hedgerows):
https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/02/the-sunken-lanes-of-europe.html

Another interesting hedgerow somewhere in Normandy:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/La_Meauffe_-_Chemin_creux_1.JPG
Nate_W
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 09:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Do you mean these?:

I asked that same question a couple of months ago and got some strange answers. I don't know what species of tree that is, but it seems to be being overtaken by some kind of parasitic growth like mistletoe.





That’s it! Very interesting tree. Thanks for the photo!
cheyenne
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 10:52 PM UTC
Google , " pollarded trees Normandy France " .
This practice started as far back as the 1700 , 1800's . Farmers pruned the lower branches of trees [ pollarded ] for firewood , fences etc , leaves were even used to add to fodder for cows etc. Pollarded trees stunt tree height growth . When pollarded among hedge rows they created a natural wind break but didn't allow the trees to grow too high and create shade for crops . The funky growths on the lower portions of the branchless trees are invasive ivies etc .
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 02:20 AM UTC
Thanks for the tip Cheyenne. I've just found out that pollarded trees are called "tétards" ou "trognes" in French (to broaden the search )...

"Tent hospital in Normandy…, 44th Evacuation Hospital, Nr La Cambe, Normandy, France, 1944" (Lee Miller's photo)




H.P.
Vierville
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 09:16 AM UTC
Thank you for posting the video. I really enjoyed it. Having spent a lot of time in Normandy, I really can appreciate the uniqueness of the Norman Bocage. What I found fascinating was Paul Woodadge's research into what percentage of the bocage still exists.
cheyenne
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 11:04 AM UTC
Thanks H.P. , will do .

Read this very interesting and informative pdf covering northern Europe tree pollarding . There is a French section on Normandy and northern France .

http://www.ancienttreeforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/A-study-of-practical-pollarding-techniques-in-northern.pdf
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