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M52 tractor using Hobbyboss M54 as donor?
Denimo
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 06:26 AM UTC
Hi All

Im hoping to build an M52 as used to haul fuel in ODS. I have the HB M54, so is the RM M52 resin kit the way to go? Ive also read of a Hobbyfan M52. Im hoping the frame rails 5th wheel etc is all there. I understand the RM kit doesn't have wheels included.

Also wonder if the V.N era trailer for the M52 was ever used in ODS.

Any advice on this guys?

Denimo
MAD_DUCK
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 07:56 AM UTC
With the RM conversion you'll have to cut the frame rails. As for the trailer the M127 was still in use I believe during ODS but the tail lights may be different then the Vietnam version.
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 08:45 AM UTC
Remember this thread Denis (mentioning RM stuff quality) ?

http://www.armorama.co.uk/forums/276742

Hobby Fan full kit may be worth considering IMHO (no surgery needed )...

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/293197782694

...providing you can find some ODS pics to confirme the M52 was used in ODS in the first place

H.P.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 12:29 PM UTC
First off, I think you mean the AFV Club M54A2. Hobby Boss doesn't offer an M54.


I would use it, cut down to the proper length, and add the fifth wheel and other M52-specific parts from the RM conversion or Hobby Fan M52 kit. In my opinion, the AFV Club kit is much better detailed and more accurate.

This should help.
Denimo
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 04:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

With the RM conversion you'll have to cut the frame rails. As for the trailer the M127 was still in use I believe during ODS but the tail lights may be different then the Vietnam version.



Thanks Vince. Is the M127 kit still available?
Denimo
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 04:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

First off, I think you mean the AFV Club M54A2. Hobby Boss doesn't offer an M54.


I would use it, cut down to the proper length, and add the fifth wheel and other M52-specific parts from the RM conversion or Hobby Fan M52 kit. In my opinion, the AFV Club kit is much better detailed and more accurate.


This should help.



Thanks Gino. So the AFV M54 would work. Thats great news, thanks. Next, the job of finding the RM kit, little hope of the HF one.

Wonder what my chances of getting a " good" example from RM will be.......

Denimo
Denimo
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 04:39 AM UTC
Thanks Frenchy. Yes, that discussion was instructive and the info re the HF kit is tempting indeed.

I did read the start of a report about fuel consumption and usage during ODS which mentioned a unit using M52's to haul fuel early in the war.
Denimo
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

First off, I think you mean the AFV Club M54A2. Hobby Boss doesn't offer an M54.


I would use it, cut down to the proper length, and add the fifth wheel and other M52-specific parts from the RM conversion or Hobby Fan M52 kit. In my opinion, the AFV Club kit is much better detailed and more accurate.

This should help.



I know squat about HF levels of detail, fit or finish. But I guess you mean the AFV Club kit is the superior version?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 05:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

First off, I think you mean the AFV Club M54A2. Hobby Boss doesn't offer an M54.


I would use it, cut down to the proper length, and add the fifth wheel and other M52-specific parts from the RM conversion or Hobby Fan M52 kit. In my opinion, the AFV Club kit is much better detailed and more accurate.

This should help.



I know squat about HF levels of detail, fit or finish. But I guess you mean the AFV Club kit is the superior version?



Real Model: this is a conversion based on the Italeri M923
HobbyFan (the resin branch of AFV-Club): full kit, complete with everything
AFV-Club: has a kit of the M54 truck.

Option 1: HobbyFan complete kit
Option 2: AFV-Club base kit + selected bits from the HobbyFan complete kit (lots of wasted resin)
Option 3: Real Model conversion with AFV-Club M54 kit as base
Option 3: Real Model conversion with Italeri M923 kit as base
/ Robin
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 05:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I know squat about HF levels of detail, fit or finish. But I guess you mean the AFV Club kit is the superior version?



Yes, the AFV Club plastic kit, in my opinion, is better detailed, more accurate, and easier to work with than a full resin kit. I would get the RM conversion and use it with the AFV Club kit. It has the few parts needed in resin (shorter fuel tanks, 5th wheel, ramps, and a few other small parts) and PE for the flatter pieces (spare tire rack, tread plate over the rear chassis and fuel tanks, etc), along with decals.

You can see the resin and PE in the bleow pic.
HermannB
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 05:45 AM UTC
With the US Army replacing the M39 series trucks by M800 series in the 1970`s and then by M939 series a decade later, I highly doubt that there were any M39 series in use in 1990. Maybe the truck was confused with M800 series.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

With the US Army replacing the M39 series trucks by M800 series in the 1970`s and then by M939 series a decade later, I highly doubt that there were any M39 series in use in 1990. Maybe the truck was confused with M800 series.



I tend to agree with this. If you want a Desert Storm vehicle, get the RM M818 tractor conversion and use it w/the AFV Club base model. It has the M800 series cab (lengthened hood and front side panels) and the tractor parts.



Or get the RM M931 conversion for a more moderm M900 series tractor. You will have to get the Italeri M923/925 kit for it though. It has all the parts needed for the tractor conmversion.


Or convert it yourself, like this:


Removed by original poster on 10/07/19 - 18:26:42 (GMT).
Denimo
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

With the US Army replacing the M39 series trucks by M800 series in the 1970`s and then by M939 series a decade later, I highly doubt that there were any M39 series in use in 1990. Maybe the truck was confused with M800 series.



I tend to agree with this. If you want a Desert Storm vehicle, get the RM M818 tractor conversion and use it w/the AFV Club base model. It has the M800 series cab (lengthened hood and front side panels) and the tractor parts.



Or get the RM M931 conversion for a more moderm M900 series tractor. You will have to get the Italeri M923/925 kit for it though.




Once again Super Helpful! This is the main reason I love this site. Given Ive got the AFV M54 and no other use for it, I think the RM 818 would be the best way to go. Im still intigued by the US Army paper mentioning M52 use in the early days OF ODS though. There are pics....one purporting to be M52 pulling/pushing an artillery piece onto a a ship in1985. But as other posters have mentioned, these could be M800.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:42 AM UTC
M818 info.



Good pics at this site.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

With the US Army replacing the M39 series trucks by M800 series in the 1970`s and then by M939 series a decade later, I highly doubt that there were any M39 series in use in 1990. Maybe the truck was confused with M800 series.



I tend to agree with this. If you want a Desert Storm vehicle, get the RM M818 tractor conversion and use it w/the AFV Club base model. It has the M800 series cab (lengthened hood and front side panels) and the tractor parts.



Or get the RM M931 conversion for a more moderm M900 series tractor. You will have to get the Italeri M923/925 kit for it though.




Once again Super Helpful! This is the main reason I love this site. Given Ive got the AFV M54 and no other use for it, I think the RM 818 would be the best way to go. Im still intigued by the US Army paper mentioning M52 use in the early days OF ODS though. There are pics....one purporting to be M52 pulling/pushing an artillery piece onto a a ship in1985. But as other posters have mentioned, these could be M800.



Lots of images have the wrong captions .....
Denimo
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

With the US Army replacing the M39 series trucks by M800 series in the 1970`s and then by M939 series a decade later, I highly doubt that there were any M39 series in use in 1990. Maybe the truck was confused with M800 series.



I tend to agree with this. If you want a Desert Storm vehicle, get the RM M818 tractor conversion and use it w/the AFV Club base model. It has the M800 series cab (lengthened hood and front side panels) and the tractor parts.



Or get the RM M931 conversion for a more moderm M900 series tractor. You will have to get the Italeri M923/925 kit for it though.




Once again Super Helpful! This is the main reason I love this site. Given Ive got the AFV M54 and no other use for it, I think the RM 818 would be the best way to go. Im still intigued by the US Army paper mentioning M52 use in the early days OF ODS though. There are pics....one purporting to be M52 pulling/pushing an artillery piece onto a a ship in1985. But as other posters have mentioned, these could be M800.



Lots of images have the wrong captions .....



Agreed. Ive just ordered the RM conversion to go with the AFV M54 kit.
Denimo
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:55 AM UTC
Excellent info and great pics Gino. Thanks!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 07:01 AM UTC
"Some of the truck companies attached to the 475th had M818 or M52 tactical tractors pulling the 5,000 gallon semi-trailers.These tractors were not suited to the mission of long hauls onhard surface roads at relatively high speeds (in excess of 20MPH), and significant maintenance problems began to occur. Conversely, some of the companies assigned to the ARCENT Corps were equipped with M915 tractors, which have minimal, if any, capability to operate off road, making them almost useless to the tactical units which they were intended to support."

Text taken from: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a263676.pdf

I found one image showing an M54 truck being unloaded from a ship during exercise Reforger in 1991 (same period as Desert Storm)



From the book: "Operation Desert Storm:Disposal and Sale of Excess Items: Fact Sheet for Congressional Requesters"
http://archive.gao.gov/d35t11/147873.pdf
Appendix 1, top of page 5
"According to a DRMO representative, “H” condition code (unserviceable) was used fairly liberally by the services for Germany’s donations, since there were no repair parts for the foreign vehicles. For example, some of the vehicles could be repaired but due to the lack of repair parts were coded unserviceable. Also, some of the vehicles could be used for parts. The U.S. vehicles were items such as the 5-ton M52 truck, which are being phased out of the U.S. inventory and were excess to U.S. needs."

The interestig part here is: "being phased out of the U.S. inventory"

I get the impression that M52, M818 and M931/932 tractors could be used for ODS, as well as the off-road incapable M915 ...
Denimo
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

"Some of the truck companies attached to the 475th had M818 or M52 tactical tractors pulling the 5,000 gallon semi-trailers.These tractors were not suited to the mission of long hauls onhard surface roads at relatively high speeds (in excess of 20MPH), and significant maintenance problems began to occur. Conversely, some of the companies assigned to the ARCENT Corps were equipped with M915 tractors, which have minimal, if any, capability to operate off road, making them almost useless to the tactical units which they were intended to support."

Text taken from: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a263676.pdf

I found one image showing an M54 truck being unloaded from a ship during exercise Reforger in 1991 (same period as Desert Storm)



From the book: "Operation Desert Storm:Disposal and Sale of Excess Items: Fact Sheet for Congressional Requesters"
http://archive.gao.gov/d35t11/147873.pdf
Appendix 1, top of page 5
"According to a DRMO representative, “H” condition code (unserviceable) was used fairly liberally by the services for Germany’s donations, since there were no repair parts for the foreign vehicles. For example, some of the vehicles could be repaired but due to the lack of repair parts were coded unserviceable. Also, some of the vehicles could be used for parts. The U.S. vehicles were items such as the 5-ton M52 truck, which are being phased out of the U.S. inventory and were excess to U.S. needs."

The interestig part here is: "being phased out of the U.S. inventory"

I get the impression that M52, M818 and M931/932 tractors could be used for ODS, as well as the off-road incapable M915 ...



Thanks for this Robin. Very interesting and I'll be looking at an M52 and trailer down the road!
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