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British army olive drab for 1940?
GregCopplin
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 01:29 AM UTC
I’m currently building a vickers medium tank mk. I for a diorama I’m doing. The Mk. I has been pressed into service for the defense of England. It calls for an olive drab color but I’m not sure if there is a proper olive drab i should be using for the British army in 1940. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 01:49 AM UTC
This helps?

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/smart-sets-colors/317-british-colors.html
GregCopplin
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 02:07 AM UTC



Thank you, I’m just not sure if i should use the khaki green for 1939-42 or if olive drab would be better? That’s my only concern. The instructions call for olive drab but I’m not quite positive on the correct color combos .
Biggles2
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 02:49 AM UTC
This may be of some interest:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050426201659/http://www.armouredacorn.com/Reference/CVM/NCVMs/NCVM%20Part%2023a%20(BEF%20in%20France).pdf
GregCopplin
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC



This helps, thank you!
tankmodeler
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 05:10 AM UTC
The British army didn't use an Olive Drab for anything prior to 1944 with the introduction of SCC15 as the base colour for all new armour from then on.

As shown in Barry's Armoured Acorn profiles, the base colour for 1940 would have been G3 Khaki Green with Dark Green G5 as the disrupter.

Per Mark Starmer:
1939-41 – Bold horizontal/diagonal patterns of two greens following M.T.P.20 diagrams of June 1939. The usual basic colour was Khaki Green G3 with a disrupter of Dark Green No.4 or rarely Light Green No.5. Plain G3 is an alternative.

Colour Mixes:

Khaki Green G3/ “Service Colour”. No standard.
Mix: 12 x Revell 361 + 5 x Revell 360 + 7 x Revell 84.
Alternatives; 5 x Humbrol 155 + 1 x Humbrol 10
1 x R46 + 1 x R382.
Tamiya: 8 x XF62 + 3x XF59 + 1 x XF68 or 8 x XF62 + 3 x XF59 + 1 x XF68.
In use: 1938-42. Usual basic colour until replaced in 1942 with S.C.C.2. Used with G4.
An official alternative to Slate 34 as the dark tone in Middle East in Caunter scheme.
Description: A yellowish brown-green like a very strong 1930s US Olive Drab.

Dark Green G4, provisional. No standard.
Mix: 8 x Revell 361 + 1 x Revell 8 or Humbrol 33.
Alternatives; Humbrol 116 or Humbrol 195
Tamiya 3 x XF61 + 2 x XF58.
In use: 1939 till early 1941 as the disrupter over G3.
Description: a dark yellow green of fairly low contrast against G3.
marcb
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 07:15 AM UTC
As Paul stated, a two color scheme would have been used.
This link has an example of the pre war pattern on a Vickers, half way down the page.
http://mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12077
GregCopplin
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 07:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As Paul stated, a two color scheme would have been used.
This link has an example of the pre war pattern on a Vickers, half way down the page.
http://mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12077

GregCopplin
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 07:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As Paul stated, a two color scheme would have been used.
This link has an example of the pre war pattern on a Vickers, half way down the page.
http://mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12077



Thank you for the pamphlet, i never even thought of doing a camo paint job for this kit
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - 04:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thank you for the pamphlet, i never even thought of doing a camo paint job for this kit


These would have been almost certainly camo painted as that was the standard for pretty much everything operational by 1939. If it was in the G3 paint at all, then it would have had the disruptive G4 added when it was repainted.

If you specifically wanted a non-camo painted vehicle, the only plausible back story might be that the vehicle was taken from a training school and had not been repainted before being rushed into service. In such a case it would still be in overall Deep Bronze Green.

But not for long. As we all know, RSMs are loathe to permit anything to remain out of "regs" for long, so if the vehicle has been at a unit for much more than a couple weeks without actual combat. some idle squaddie would have been given the task to repaint it to the regulation camo scheme.

Deep Bronze Green BS.24

Mix: 6 x Humbrol 3 + 3 x Humbrol 10 + 1 x Humbrol 2.

Tamiya: 8 x XF5 + 5 X XF63 satin over.

In use: 1934-39 then post-war from 1948.

Description: Very dark yellow green – a rich black green.
marcb
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - 05:21 AM UTC
Gregory,

You're welcome.

The pamphlet is also used in Dick Taylor's "Warpaint" series, and Mike Starmer's books on British WW II camouflage, so you're in good company.
Biggles2
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - 05:30 AM UTC
In the above Mark Starmer ratios for G3 and G4 (Tamiya colors), are they for 1:1 colors, or will they need fading for smaller scales, ie: 1/35; 1/72?
RLlockie
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - 06:39 AM UTC
They are matched to original samples so you’d need to adjust yourself for fading and such like.
GregCopplin
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - 08:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thank you for the pamphlet, i never even thought of doing a camo paint job for this kit


These would have been almost certainly camo painted as that was the standard for pretty much everything operational by 1939. If it was in the G3 paint at all, then it would have had the disruptive G4 added when it was repainted.

If you specifically wanted a non-camo painted vehicle, the only plausible back story might be that the vehicle was taken from a training school and had not been repainted before being rushed into service. In such a case it would still be in overall Deep Bronze Green.

But not for long. As we all know, RSMs are loathe to permit anything to remain out of "regs" for long, so if the vehicle has been at a unit for much more than a couple weeks without actual combat. some idle squaddie would have been given the task to repaint it to the regulation camo scheme.

Deep Bronze Green BS.24

Mix: 6 x Humbrol 3 + 3 x Humbrol 10 + 1 x Humbrol 2.

Tamiya: 8 x XF5 + 5 X XF63 satin over.

In use: 1934-39 then post-war from 1948.

Description: Very dark yellow green – a rich black green.



So far i have migs 113 khaki green on order, does Mig have a bronze green as well ?
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 03:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


So far i have migs 113 khaki green on order, does Mig have a bronze green as well ?



I have not cross checked them myself, but, from what I've heard, none of MIG's British colours, to date, actually matches the real thing terribly well. Mr. Starmer has been singularly unimpressed and he's pretty much the gold standard on whether stuff matches or not.

So beware buying what a company calls a match. This is not to say it may not be close enough for you, but it may not actually match.

Paul
GregCopplin
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 03:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


So far i have migs 113 khaki green on order, does Mig have a bronze green as well ?



I have not cross checked them myself, but, from what I've heard, none of MIG's British colours, to date, actually matches the real thing terribly well. Mr. Starmer has been singularly unimpressed and he's pretty much the gold standard on whether stuff matches or not.

So beware buying what a company calls a match. This is not to say it may not be close enough for you, but it may not actually match.

Paul


Ahh darn didn’t realize it wasn’t a match. Ill still give it a try maybe it’ll look good. The directions call for vallejos olive drab if anything so i find that interesting
RLlockie
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Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 - 02:47 AM UTC
Experience has taught me that kit manufacturers tend to be less than reliable when it comes to the colour and marking information they provide, so I ignore it. Better to find a subject you like and then establish how it was probably painted and marked based on the standards of the period.
Biggles2
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Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 - 04:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Experience has taught me that kit manufacturers tend to be less than reliable when it comes to the colour and marking information they provide, so I ignore it.


Unless it is Dragon's typical "Unknown Unit, Eastern Front".
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 03:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ahh darn didn’t realize it wasn’t a match. Ill still give it a try maybe it’ll look good.


Always the best approach anyway.


Quoted Text

The directions call for vallejos olive drab if anything so i find that interesting


Well, it just speaks to Bob's point that the model company recommendations are best ignored in most cases. Olive Drab would _never_ be the colour of a Vickers Medium Mk I.
GregCopplin
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Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 06:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ahh darn didn’t realize it wasn’t a match. Ill still give it a try maybe it’ll look good.


Always the best approach anyway.


Quoted Text

The directions call for vallejos olive drab if anything so i find that interesting


Well, it just speaks to Bob's point that the model company recommendations are best ignored in most cases. Olive Drab would _never_ be the colour of a Vickers Medium Mk I.



I find that interesting, you’d think some companies would research the colors more carefully.
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - 07:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I find that interesting, you’d think some companies would research the colors more carefully.


To be honest, I'd be exceptionally happy if model companies just researched the vehicles more carefully. I can live with paint and marking errors. Fixing fundamental and obvious shape errors is the real pain in my posterior!

Paul
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