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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Non-toxic, odourless oil thinner?
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 05:48 AM UTC
Sorry to be a bother with another question,

I want to use oils for washes etc.

Someone told me to get zippo lighter fluid to thin it. However, I'm very reluctant to use it doe to fumes. Would rather not.

Is there a non-toxic, preferably odourless, thinner for oils? Does linseed oil work?


Thanks in advance.
justsendit
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 06:11 AM UTC
Someone recommended ‘Weber Odorless Turpenoid’ a while back. HTH

BTW: You'd be hard-pressed to find anything "non-toxic." I don't even spray acrylics without putting on a respirator and evacuating the air.
SSGToms
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 06:35 AM UTC
Dan,

Linseed oil just extends the drying time of oil paint. I'm afraid that by it's very nature, there is no non toxic thinner for oils. Odorless we can do, though. You can go to any Home Depot or the like and pick up Klean Strip odorless mineral spirits. It really has no fumes and is very light. It's excellent for working on models. Cheap too!
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 06:42 AM UTC
You need something that evaporates quickly. Most oil paint manufacturers have their own low odor thinners. You can also get 'odorless' thinners and turpentine from Lowes or Home Depot. But no thinner is completely odorless nor will they all work with the paint without problems.

My recommendation is get the same brand thinner as the paint, test it to make sure it doesn't dissolve your model. Put a fan in the room with you aim it so it doesn't blow on your workspace or aim it out the door, turn it on low speed to keep the air moving to keep fumes from building up and if you have a window open it. Also a paint booth can help.

UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 06:48 AM UTC
Thanks for the replies.

I suppose even though it's odourless, the fumes aren't great?

I have an organic respirator, I could use that I imagine.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 07:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dan,

Linseed oil just extends the drying time of oil paint. I'm afraid that by it's very nature, there is no non toxic thinner for oils. Odorless we can do, though. You can go to any Home Depot or the like and pick up Klean Strip odorless mineral spirits. It really has no fumes and is very light. It's excellent for working on models. Cheap too!



Is this the product? (trying to find it up here in Canuckland):

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/klean-strip-946-m-l-klean-strip-premium-paint-remover-stripper/1001237536
pjmurley
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 07:53 AM UTC
Greetings from Ontario...I have been using Speedball brand Mona Lisa odourless paint thinners. I bought it at an art supply store, probably Micheal's. It has a poison label however.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 07:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Dan,

Linseed oil just extends the drying time of oil paint. I'm afraid that by it's very nature, there is no non toxic thinner for oils. Odorless we can do, though. You can go to any Home Depot or the like and pick up Klean Strip odorless mineral spirits. It really has no fumes and is very light. It's excellent for working on models. Cheap too!



Is this the product? (trying to find it up here in Canuckland):

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/klean-strip-946-m-l-klean-strip-premium-paint-remover-stripper/1001237536



WHATEVER YOU DO— DON’T USE THE PRODUCT LINKED ABOVE! ! It’s an industrial paint stripper and definitely not intended for hobby application, except to remove paint from furniture! It’s highly toxic, and will cause burns on exposed skin if left long enough. “Kleen Strip” is the name of a proprietary manufacturer and they make a line of thinners and strippers. HD carries most of their line, of which mineral and lacquer thinners are a part, as well as this highly toxic paint stripper you have linked.

In answer to your previous question, there is really no such thing as a totally “non-toxic” paint thinner, except for plain old water as used in water color paints. All solvent thinners have some degree of toxicity, however, some are better than others. For oil washes, I prefer to use “Turpenoid” brand thinner, In particular, “Turpenoid Light” which is available at Hobby Lobby or Michaels stores here in the States, and can be found at better art supply stores. It’s a synthetic turpentine with little to no odor, is fairly gentle, and does a good job with all types of oil washes. It will occasionally leave a slight “frosty” residue, which disappears with any clear topcoat. It will take an hour or so to dry completely, which makes it ideal for oil washes.
VR, Russ
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Greetings from Ontario...I have been using Speedball brand Mona Lisa odourless paint thinners. I bought it at an art supply store, probably Micheal's. It has a poison label however.



Any thinners for oils and enamels are going to be toxic. They are made with petroleum distillates so they aren't going to be fume free or 100% odorless. The lower temp evaporation are why they are used to thin oils and enamels meaning you will always have some fuming. Perhaps you should get a paint booth like this:

https://www.amazon.com/HOTSTORE-Portable-Airbrush-Extractor-Extension/dp/B07SDC3JNR/ref=sr_1_17?crid=4JPRDD18IXQ9&dchild=1&keywords=paint+booth+for+model+kits&qid=1593893234&sprefix=paint+booth%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-17

You can also find them on eBay. I have one and might buy another since they can join together to make a bigger booth.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Greetings from Ontario...I have been using Speedball brand Mona Lisa odourless paint thinners. I bought it at an art supply store, probably Micheal's. It has a poison label however.



Any thinners for oils and enamels are going to be toxic. They are made with petroleum distillates so they aren't going to be fume free or 100% odorless. The lower temp evaporation are why they are used to thin oils and enamels meaning you will always have some fuming. Perhaps you should get a paint booth like this:

https://www.amazon.com/HOTSTORE-Portable-Airbrush-Extractor-Extension/dp/B07SDC3JNR/ref=sr_1_17?crid=4JPRDD18IXQ9&dchild=1&keywords=paint+booth+for+model+kits&qid=1593893234&sprefix=paint+booth%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-17

You can also find them on eBay. I have one and might buy another since they can join together to make a bigger booth.



Patrick, I don’t think this is the point of his question, he’s asking if there’s a low odor thinner that can be used for a wash— and there is, it’s Turpenoid Light. You don’t, need a paint booth for that, although a paint booth will solve the problem. Turpenoid light is specifically made for oils, and won’t work with enamels.
VR, Russ
barnslayer
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:26 AM UTC
"Non-toxic"? No.

Less smelly? Yes but still toxic.

If toxicity is your top priority find a different medium.

Otherwise get a half-face respirator with organic solvents filters and a box of nitrile gloves. That's more than most of us old timers did decades ago.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:37 AM UTC

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Dan,

Linseed oil just extends the drying time of oil paint. I'm afraid that by it's very nature, there is no non toxic thinner for oils. Odorless we can do, though. You can go to any Home Depot or the like and pick up Klean Strip odorless mineral spirits. It really has no fumes and is very light. It's excellent for working on models. Cheap too!



Is this the product? (trying to find it up here in Canuckland):



https://www.homedepot.ca/product/klean-strip-946-m-l-klean-strip-premium-paint-remover-stripper/1001237536



WHATEVER YOU DO— DON’T USE THE PRODUCT LINKED ABOVE! ! It’s an industrial paint stripper and definitely not intended for hobby application, except to remove paint from furniture! It’s highly toxic, and will cause burns on exposed skin if left long enough. “Kleen Strip” is the name of a proprietary manufacturer and they make a line of thinners and strippers. HD carries most of their line, of which mineral and lacquer thinners are a part, as well as this highly toxic paint stripper you have linked.

In answer to your previous question, there is really no such thing as a totally “non-toxic” paint thinner, except for plain old water as used in water color paints. All solvent thinners have some degree of toxicity, however, some are better than others. For oil washes, I prefer to use “Turpenoid” brand thinner, In particular, “Turpenoid Light” which is available at Hobby Lobby or Michaels stores here in the States, and can be found at better art supply stores. It’s a synthetic turpentine with little to no odor, is fairly gentle, and does a good job with all types of oil washes. It will occasionally leave a slight “frosty” residue, which disappears with any clear topcoat. It will take an hour or so to dry completely, which makes it ideal for oil washes.
VR, Russ



Russ, thanks for the heads up. Won't buy that product in the link.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Greetings from Ontario...I have been using Speedball brand Mona Lisa odourless paint thinners. I bought it at an art supply store, probably Micheal's. It has a poison label however.



Any thinners for oils and enamels are going to be toxic. They are made with petroleum distillates so they aren't going to be fume free or 100% odorless. The lower temp evaporation are why they are used to thin oils and enamels meaning you will always have some fuming. Perhaps you should get a paint booth like this:

https://www.amazon.com/HOTSTORE-Portable-Airbrush-Extractor-Extension/dp/B07SDC3JNR/ref=sr_1_17?crid=4JPRDD18IXQ9&dchild=1&keywords=paint+booth+for+model+kits&qid=1593893234&sprefix=paint+booth%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-17

You can also find them on eBay. I have one and might buy another since they can join together to make a bigger booth.



Patrick, I don’t think this is the point of his question, he’s asking if there’s a low odor thinner that can be used for a wash— and there is, it’s Turpenoid Light. You don’t, need a paint booth for that, although a paint booth will solve the problem. Turpenoid light is specifically made for oils, and won’t work with enamels.
VR, Russ



Is a paint booth like a spray booth? Would a small spray booth help?
barnslayer
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:44 AM UTC
I found this product that claims to be all you are asking for.
I have not used it and remain skeptical.

It appears to be related to orange solvent products

Weber Turpenoid Natural. Here's the manufacturer's link

http://www.weberart.com/turpenoid-natural.html
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Greetings from Ontario...I have been using Speedball brand Mona Lisa odourless paint thinners. I bought it at an art supply store, probably Micheal's. It has a poison label however.



Any thinners for oils and enamels are going to be toxic. They are made with petroleum distillates so they aren't going to be fume free or 100% odorless. The lower temp evaporation are why they are used to thin oils and enamels meaning you will always have some fuming. Perhaps you should get a paint booth like this:

https://www.amazon.com/HOTSTORE-Portable-Airbrush-Extractor-Extension/dp/B07SDC3JNR/ref=sr_1_17?crid=4JPRDD18IXQ9&dchild=1&keywords=paint+booth+for+model+kits&qid=1593893234&sprefix=paint+booth%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-17

You can also find them on eBay. I have one and might buy another since they can join together to make a bigger booth.



Patrick, I don’t think this is the point of his question, he’s asking if there’s a low odor thinner that can be used for a wash— and there is, it’s Turpenoid Light. You don’t, need a paint booth for that, although a paint booth will solve the problem. Turpenoid light is specifically made for oils, and won’t work with enamels.
VR, Russ



He mentioned fumes and you will have fumes even with odorless thinners. You may not smell them but you can feel them in your eyes and nasal membranes. Keeping the fumes under control is important, too many can replace the oxygen, build up to explosive levels and with odorless thinners you can't smell when the fumes are getting thick. That's why I recommended the fan and paint booth.

Paintbooth, spraybooth same thing the link I posted comes with an extendable vent hose and window mounted outlet. I got one with three rows of LED lights to illuminate the work area.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 08:59 AM UTC

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Greetings from Ontario...I have been using Speedball brand Mona Lisa odourless paint thinners. I bought it at an art supply store, probably Micheal's. It has a poison label however.



Any thinners for oils and enamels are going to be toxic. They are made with petroleum distillates so they aren't going to be fume free or 100% odorless. The lower temp evaporation are why they are used to thin oils and enamels meaning you will always have some fuming. Perhaps you should get a paint booth like this:

https://www.amazon.com/HOTSTORE-Portable-Airbrush-Extractor-Extension/dp/B07SDC3JNR/ref=sr_1_17?crid=4JPRDD18IXQ9&dchild=1&keywords=paint+booth+for+model+kits&qid=1593893234&sprefix=paint+booth%2Caps%2C322&sr=8-17

You can also find them on eBay. I have one and might buy another since they can join together to make a bigger booth.



Patrick, I don’t think this is the point of his question, he’s asking if there’s a low odor thinner that can be used for a wash— and there is, it’s Turpenoid Light. You don’t, need a paint booth for that, although a paint booth will solve the problem. Turpenoid light is specifically made for oils, and won’t work with enamels.
VR, Russ



Is a paint booth like a spray booth? Would a small spray booth help?



They are in fact the same. But what are you after here, a solvent that’s best for oil washes with a low odor, or a solvent that can be used in a paint booth? The answer to the latter is that you can use any volatile (heavy odor) paint thinner or paint as long as you use a paint booth. But not every paint thinner works for an oil thinner for washes. Mineral spirits will attack the enamel paints underneath, whereas Turpenoids (synthetic turpentine) are gentler. Certainly the “Kleen Strip“ paint stripper you referenced above will remove everything, and will likely even dissolve the plastic.
VR, Russ
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 09:17 AM UTC
I'm guessing lavender oil won't work for plastics?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 10:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm guessing lavender oil won't work for plastics?




Wow, you are digging deep. Lavender oil, lemon and mint oils, and anything else with the word “oil” as a suffix are extracts, usually of food grade items. They are usually blended with other oily extracts, or glycerines, and won’t be any good as solvents at all. They usually have a slick, oily appearance, along with the extracted fragrance. These things are usually found as cleaners, scents, or repellents, not as solvents. There are some products (such as the Weber Turpenoid products above), which are citric based, but I doubt they’ll do anything but mess up traditional oils or enamels.
VR! Russ
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 10:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm guessing lavender oil won't work for plastics?




Wow, you are digging deep. Lavender oil, lemon and mint oils, and anything else with the word “oil” as a suffix are extracts, usually of food grade items. They are usually blended with other oily extracts, or glycerines, and won’t be any good as solvents at all. They usually have a slick, oily appearance, along with the extracted fragrance. These things are usually found as cleaners, scents, or repellents, not as solvents. There are some products (such as the Weber Turpenoid products above), which are citric based, but I doubt they’ll do anything but mess up traditional oils or enamels.
VR! Russ



That citric turpenoid is a really good suggestion. I think I'm going to try some of that. Thanks for the suggestion.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 12:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm guessing lavender oil won't work for plastics?




Wow, you are digging deep. Lavender oil, lemon and mint oils, and anything else with the word “oil” as a suffix are extracts, usually of food grade items. They are usually blended with other oily extracts, or glycerines, and won’t be any good as solvents at all. They usually have a slick, oily appearance, along with the extracted fragrance. These things are usually found as cleaners, scents, or repellents, not as solvents. There are some products (such as the Weber Turpenoid products above), which are citric based, but I doubt they’ll do anything but mess up traditional oils or enamels.
VR! Russ



That citric turpenoid is a really good suggestion. I think I'm going to try some of that. Thanks for the suggestion.



What I’m referring to is the stuff Barney suggested above, which I believe is a citron based natural brush cleaner, but like Barney said, I don’t have much faith in such items. I really think you should try Turpenoid Light, which is also a Weber product. If you look at the stuff Barney linked above, you’ll see that it has a yellowish-amber color. That’s an indicator of an additive. Turpenoid light is crystal clear, and formulated specifically for thinning oil paints (not enamels).
VR, Russ
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 01:32 PM UTC
I occasionally will use the citron based cleaners to strip oil covered engine parts and have seen it soften some plastics. They do make citron based model glues. Wouldn't use it to thin your oil paint.
Dinocamo
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 01:35 PM UTC
Hello,

As other mentioned here and there, I just want to remind you that, once you open an oil-based paint bottle, you are exposing yourself to toxic material. There is no truly safe thinner for the old based paint since it needs similar solvent to function in the 1st place. odorless fume is still fume and is still dangerous.

You can however use water based paints, like acrylic paint, which water can be used as solvent and is obviously safe.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 02:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello,

As other mentioned here and there, I just want to remind you that, once you open an oil-based paint bottle, you are exposing yourself to toxic material. There is no truly safe thinner for the old based paint since it needs similar solvent to function in the 1st place. odorless fume is still fume and is still dangerous.

You can however use water based paints, like acrylic paint, which water can be used as solvent and is obviously safe.



True. I'm torn. On the one hand, oil paints seem to be the choice for detailing and weathering. On the other, don't like the potential toxins.

Do water-based paints work for filters/washes?
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 03:17 PM UTC
Acrylics aren't water based but are using resins and other chemicals to get their paints to adhere properly. I wouldn't thin them with water but use the thinner designed for the paint. Paint manufacturers recommend their products to thin and I've found less confusion and better results using like products rather than tempt fate my mixing with water. I switched to about 99% acrylics and will use enamels and lacquers as needed. I use Testors Dullcote and Glosscote (lacquers) and some enamels for weathering. A lot of premixed weathering products are enamel based so you need to learn to mix your own or fork over more money for something that I've been making for decades.

Any paint is going to put out fumes. Some fumes are toxic and other just irritating. Over 40 years, actually getting closer to 50 years of modeling and I've never really been bothered by fumes. The cements, CA glues, fillers and putties also fume and by their nature are irritating. It has never bothered me because I use good ventilation.

You need to realize that fumes and smells are the byproduct of the hobby and find ways to lessen them. Mixing strange compounds and oils to avoid smelling solvents is risking your model and your safety because some chemicals react poorly when mixed.

Good ventilation and a filter mask will alleviate most of your concerns but you will always have the faint smell of paint, glue, fillers so you got to accept that or you are in the wrong hobby.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 03:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Acrylics aren't water based but are using resins and other chemicals to get their paints to adhere properly. I wouldn't thin them with water but use the thinner designed for the paint. Paint manufacturers recommend their products to thin and I've found less confusion and better results using like products rather than tempt fate my mixing with water. I switched to about 99% acrylics and will use enamels and lacquers as needed. I use Testors Dullcote and Glosscote (lacquers) and some enamels for weathering. A lot of premixed weathering products are enamel based so you need to learn to mix your own or fork over more money for something that I've been making for decades.

Any paint is going to put out fumes. Some fumes are toxic and other just irritating. Over 40 years, actually getting closer to 50 years of modeling and I've never really been bothered by fumes. The cements, CA glues, fillers and putties also fume and by their nature are irritating. It has never bothered me because I use good ventilation.

You need to realize that fumes and smells are the byproduct of the hobby and find ways to lessen them. Mixing strange compounds and oils to avoid smelling solvents is risking your model and your safety because some chemicals react poorly when mixed.

Good ventilation and a filter mask will alleviate most of your concerns but you will always have the faint smell of paint, glue, fillers so you got to accept that or you are in the wrong hobby.



Truth be told I have OCD, so I often obsess about my health. That is part of the reason I've been posting about toxins, etc.

I have an organic respirator, and just purchased a portable spray booth on amazon. If I use both in a well ventilated room I'm guessing I will be ok.
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