Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Artillery vs cruise missiles!? Hell, yeah!
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2020 - 09:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


A couple of observations and comments:
The "M107" testbed is actually an M110A2 re-tubed with the experimental high velocity 155mm barrel.

The barrel whip is actually the entire weapons system bucking from the recoil. The hull deck is bouncing up and down in sync with the tube. This occurred with the M110A2 firing charge 7 at a low elevations. Crew members were knocked off the gun in the M110A2 battery that I commanded on the direct fire range.

The test fired the joint High Velocity Projectile (HVP) which is an offshoot of the Navy's Railgun project. The projectile is guided and has a range of 50 miles (80km) when fired from the howitzer. When fired from a conventional tube, it achieves Mach 3. Mach 5 is achieved only when fired from a railgun. The HVP is a multipurpose projectile. It can be fired from 155 howitzers, 5" deck guns, the under development MK45 deck gun and the experimental railgun. It is intended to be used against ground targets and ships. The anti-cruise missile capability is a nice bonus. Commanders would no longer have to worry about firing a very limited quantity of million dollar anti-aircraft missiles with a really slow reload time.

The howitzer would not be trying to traverse to keep on the cruise missile target - it only needs to put the projectile within the maneuvering footprint of the guidance system around the target for success.

As an Air Assault Brigade Fire Support Officer I'd have given my left nut for this system. Nearly all of our objectives where beyond the conventional artillery range fan. 80km would have ranged most of our objectives. As the Division G3 Future Plans Fire Support Officer having that range with tube artillery opens a wide range of options for all weather deep strikes.


Rick, Never shot the m110a2, but did shoot a good bit out of the shorter barreled one. Mostly sevens, and never really saw the issue. Yet there was one charge that was forbidden stateside. Wanta say charge three white bag, but might have been green bag. Something about breaking the speed of sound a few feet out of the barrel creating a massive concussion issue; plus blowing out half the windows in Lawton!

I always felt the neither the M110 or M107 shot well with the barrel close to level. (155 towed don't either). There is no direct fire solution for the M107 except to load a zone three charge without the projo (wear your sunglasses). How the new howitzers shoot at near level is interesting. Has pluses and some minuses. The older guns could (and would) jump the parapet with a heavy charge. A three green bag was about the max safe charge. I have shot a charge five at a negative three degrees, and jumped the pit. Needless to say I lost ten years on my life! Never liked the barrel at near level shooting any charge, but have done the charge one drill with a second on the fuse more than once.
Guess thats why I have grey hair!
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: March 19, 2013
KitMaker: 52 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2020 - 09:55 AM UTC
So in that clip are they shooting with electricity or powder? It seems like powder, but if it is a rail gun it needs the electricity- but the gun recoils a lot! Interesting.

At 80km have to have targeting capability that deep.
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2020 - 10:11 AM UTC
I wonder if this HVP round can be used by the three U.S Navy's DDG 1000 USS Zumwalt destroyers.

The DDG 1000s cannot fire standard NATO 155mm Army rounds, a goof in their magazine designs, hence the DDG 1000s have to purchase custom-made and sized rounds that cost the U.S. Navy a whopping $800,000 each, leading to the LRAP rounds' program cancellation.

If the DDG 1000 destroyers can fire this HVP 155mm round, or get its sabot jacket to fit somehow, someway, then the DDG 1000s can finally provide shore bombardment fire for the US Marines. Hey, 50 miles (80KM) isn't 100KM, but it sure as heck beats inactive guns on all three Zumwalt destroyers just sitting there and not doing anything but be dead weight.

No mention as to the cost of the M109A6's HVP guided round, but I bet it sure beats $800,000 each! And being capable of shooting down cruise missile would be an added bonus for the DDG 1000s. If this works on the DDG 1000s, it's like a freaking miracle for the U.S. Navy and a prayer answered for the U.S. Marine Corps.

The 155mm HVP's explosive impact has to be considered though as I wonder if this is more of a sabot dart round than a HE round able to bombard shores and blow up mines, traps, fortifications, and barbed wire. It may have Anti-armor purposes, but are the Marines looking for sabot darts or high explosive rounds?


Interesting feedback on the Crusader SPH. I thought that was tested to be a winner.

That brings me to the NLOS-Cannon of the FCS family, also tested to work. With this 155mm HVP round, the NLOS-C seems to have renewed life as the lightest 155mm SPH in U.S. Army service if produced. No need for the M109A6/ A7 to show up if the HVP can fire to 40-50 miles away and shoot down cruise missiles. Airborne and Light Infantry would be thrilled. Any reason why the NLOS-C wasn't continued when the rest of the FCS family was axed?
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2020 - 10:46 AM UTC
As an Air Assault Brigade Fire Support Officer I'd have given my left nut for this system.

I wonder if you know or knew LTC Felix R. from Campbell. He was the J35 in Korea (CSOCC-K) and mentored me in a lot of things an 18B normally wouldn't know, i.e. the ATO, 96 hour cycle, etc...

Great dude to work with.
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Friday, September 11, 2020 - 05:03 AM UTC
I wonder if this is the Leonardo 155mm VULCANO guided RAP round that they're talking about, and not some domestic U.S.A. product going through R&D trials.

If so, VULCANO exists for several calibers and guns. The range seems to match with VULCANO.
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Friday, September 11, 2020 - 02:30 PM UTC
More information here...

Looks like it is a U.S.A. Domestic HVP product and not the Leonardo 155mm VULCANO RAP guided round.

Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 - 11:01 PM UTC