login   |    register
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
FEATURE
Waffen '46 Konigsjagdpanther
jimz66
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
KitMaker: 1,164 posts
Armorama: 1,105 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 04:19 AM UTC
This is Matthew Quiroz''s Panther What If tank destroyer. This is a nice change of pace from what we normally see here so please enjoy.



Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
DT61
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 18, 2005
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
Armorama: 819 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 04:43 AM UTC
That is one interesting TD! Neat concept.
Darryl
chefchris
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 06, 2006
KitMaker: 1,544 posts
Armorama: 1,464 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 05:02 AM UTC
Very nice work Matthew! I know this is totally what if but I really wonder how this room in t hat superstructure for all that equipment. The breech alone is massive, then there is the gun mount, ammo, streoscopic sighting system, radios, not to mention crew members.....

I'll probably be torched for this posting but I guess there should be some element of reality even in sci fi.(Im not a big fan of the MiG production walking Panze rfor some of the same reasons!

Your construction, painting, and weathering is top notch

Chris
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 05:39 AM UTC
Thanks for the kudos guys. Glad you like it. In all honesty....I forgot I had submitted this. Yeah, been a little busy.. Thanks, "Q"
MLD
Visit this Community
Vermont, United States
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
Armorama: 2,070 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:10 AM UTC
Matthew,
Nice finish! I love the liebmunster inspired cammo scheme.

I've got one on the shelf with all the spare fiddly bits all set to go, but have not gotten started for some reason. It resurfaces to the top of the build next pile, but never quite makes it to the bench. It's been a while since I even looked in the box.

How was the casting on your copy? Mine is a bit rough, I maybe able to save one of the range finder blisters, but the other is a total loss.

The fun things about whot-if-ers is that they dont have to make much sense..

Mike
cach7
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: October 13, 2002
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 07:46 AM UTC
Thats cool,really like the pipes!!! Dont let Herbert see it he may have a problem.
bizzychicken
Visit this Community
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2008
KitMaker: 967 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 08:48 AM UTC
Nice looking TD I think this one would have really worried the allied tank battalions. Top marks Ps Great news to the extra part of your Tribe LOL Geraint . Love the late war camo, really is a very good " What If". Wouldn't have taken much to put that beast into production A1! What gun did this TD carry? looks like a biggy to me.
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 12:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

How was the casting on your copy? Mine is a bit rough, I maybe able to save one of the range finder blisters, but the other is a total loss.


Thanks for the kudos. The casting on mine wasn't horrible, but did require some work. Numerous pinholes that didn't get noticed until it was painted. There was a slight bit of warp from front to rear, but I was able to overcome this with some careful grinding inside the resin super structure, and use of 5 minute epoxy to secure the bottom and top halves together. Had a bit of flash on my range finders, but nothing that wasn't easy to clean up.

Quoted Text

What gun did this TD carry? looks like a biggy to me.


Using my Mk-I eyeball I would guestimate a 128mm. Thanks for the kind words on the build. It was a fun project. "Q"
milvehfan
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 26, 2007
KitMaker: 2,116 posts
Armorama: 1,080 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 04:39 AM UTC
Hey Q, Your Panther TD is Very Very COOL!!!! regards, milvehfan
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:01 AM UTC
Thanks Milvehfan, much appreciated.
"Q"
Braille
#135
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: August 05, 2007
KitMaker: 1,500 posts
Armorama: 1,484 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 04:45 PM UTC
Matthew,

I have always liked the looks of this kit. You've done a very outstanding job. I especially like your crew figure, it adds life to your monstor TD. Great looking Zimmerit paste job . . . looks field applied. The steel wheels puts this what if over the top for me. I sure would like to add this one to my small collection of 35th scale projects if its still available! A good job on the faded camo.

-Eddy
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 05:05 PM UTC
Eddy, Thanks for the kudos. Glad you like it. If you can find one, be fore warned about the instructions. They are mere copies of a copy of a copy. Written entirely in German, with just a couple of really poor black and white pictures to go by. I pretty much had to wing it when it came to the armored skirts on mine, but since they were warped, I left them off. Thanks again for the kind words. "Q"
SGTJKJ
#041
Visit this Community
Kobenhavn, Denmark
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,068 posts
Armorama: 4,677 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 03:02 AM UTC
Wow! Great job, Matthew. The camouflage came out really nice and I like the look of the damaged side skirts. Are these the warped ones from the kit or did you scratchbuild them? Maybe a little warping can go a long way

A very unique looking beast!

Thanks for sharing
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 08:25 AM UTC
Hi Jesper. Thanks for the compliments. The side skirts and fenders are Eduard PE items. I bent the skirts up using different tools. Decided to use just some of them to impart a little more character to the vehicle. Thanks, "Q"
numero600
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: March 30, 2009
KitMaker: 2 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 10:30 PM UTC
Hello.
Wow! Great job, Matthew
I want to.
Where can I buy the kit for the transformation?
What bar gun you used?
Greetings.
firstcircle
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 2,005 posts
Posted: Friday, November 13, 2009 - 05:24 AM UTC
Excellent work, but totally agree with Chris Smith's scepticism about the design...

It looks like it would suffer in the same way as the Elefant did - limited gun traverse and elevation (especially looks like the gun can't depress at all) and that bow machine gun is somewhat limited in the same way.

I suspect that commander is trying to look around the corner cos he thinks he saw a pesky Russian tank hunting team sneaking up on him, and they're just about to chuck some molotovs into that right hand engine grille!!

Still, doesn't mean it is that off the wall, as those guys were clearly going a bit strange in the head by the end.
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Monday, November 16, 2009 - 02:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello.
Wow! Great job, Matthew
I want to.
Where can I buy the kit for the transformation?
What bar gun you used?
Greetings.



Thank you. I bought the conversion kit off of a friend. It is made by FCM. I am not sure if it is still available though. The metal barrel came with the conversion kit. Thanks again for the compliments.
"Q" "
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,285 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Monday, November 16, 2009 - 02:58 AM UTC
Thanks for the kudos Matt. Limitations or not, I still dig the way it looks. Thanks again, "Q"
TANKER-NEIL
Visit this Community
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: March 09, 2009
KitMaker: 13 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 09:25 AM UTC
Nice work it is nice to do a what if, as it gives you alot of freedom and nobody can say this or that is wrong or its the wrong colour. REALLY like your model, enjoy your bikes, models come close but bikes rule
Klinker
Visit this Community
Tasmania, Australia
Joined: December 26, 2009
KitMaker: 369 posts
Armorama: 352 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 11:20 PM UTC
Just found this post... excellent!!! definatly my cup of tea!!! love all the Panzer 46/Paper Panzer's stuff, will be checking out FCM I think...

I can see the proplem with getting everything into the superstructure very good point Chris! but I saw a AS-90 the other day at full elivation and you would swear the breach would be sticking in the mud!

Is ths model based on any plans (was there any)??? for the JagdPanthers planned replacement?
John_O
Visit this Community
Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: November 23, 2007
KitMaker: 569 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 06:57 AM UTC
There was a whole 'umbewafenung' plan to upgun a whole series of existing panzers, most if not all proposed by Krupp, but all of these got rejected on sound reasons. This included the Jagdpanther where effectively a 128mm was proposed. The model Matthew made looks very similar to what is shown in Panzer Tracts (20-1 paper panzers) and in a very old publication I have 'German Tank and Antitank', but it's not quite the same.

Cheers,

John
H_Ackermans
Visit this Community
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
Armorama: 2,221 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 10:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There was a whole 'umbewafenung' plan to upgun a whole series of existing panzers, most if not all proposed by Krupp, but all of these got rejected on sound reasons. This included the Jagdpanther where effectively a 128mm was proposed. The model Matthew made looks very similar to what is shown in Panzer Tracts (20-1 paper panzers) and in a very old publication I have 'German Tank and Antitank', but it's not quite the same.

Cheers,

John



Almost all if not all of these upgun ideas were in the end dropped for one and the same reason:

Absolutely not feasible.

The upgunning of the Tiger-B to a 105mm gun was rejected because the 2 part ammo would bring down the rate of fire, the ammount of rounds to be taken on board plus it would require a second loader, where space in the turret would be even more limited than with the 88mm gun.

The same holds for the JagdPanther II, upon which this kit is based. The 128mm gunmount would fill up the whole of the superstructure, leaving almost no room for crew and ammo. Also, the vehicle would be severely overburdening the running gear, even with steel wheels.

This is something that keeps coming back in "What if" models, a complete lack of thinking about what is going on inside. Even Trumpeter didn't when they nicked their E-100B turret. There's no way that would fit in that turret, absolutely no way. You can't minimize a gunmount to fit a turret, the turret is designed around that gunmount.