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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Best primer on the market?
joegrafton
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 08:11 AM UTC
I checked out the ingrediants of Windolene sold in the UK. It doesn't have amonia in it. Is that a problem?
Joe.
rjc_rbnj
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

You mentioned in your previous reply about surface preparation & to cover the model with Windex. I'm not sure if we have this product in the UK so can anybody point me in the right direction to an equivalent product that is available over here, please?


Windowlean? Im guessing the windex is an alcohol/ethanol based product? Windowlean or Ajax window cleaner would do the same. Just check the compsition and make sure its an alcohol based cleaner.

I fill a bowl with warm water and a good squirt of washing up liquid. Set your built model in this for about 20 minutes or so, and rinse really well with luke warm water. Leave in a dust free box for a day or so until it dries.

I prime sometimes when having multi coloured bits, but have sprayed Tamiya directly as well on similar. Never had a problem with it either way and could agree that priming may be a pointless exercise. Many have recommended Games workshop primers ... they are good but they are quite expensive. I use a hobby primer from an auto/DIY shop and it works every bit as well as the games workshop primer, and is about one third of the price.




Alcohol is used to spread and dry window cleaning products. Ammonia is the active agent that does the actual cleaning.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 04:40 PM UTC
Frank:

Hi!

Sadly, the short-and-simple is "YES". In the 2 years I've been back into the hobby, I have had the oilies.

And it's with old east-euro kits- old RPM and Mirage stuff and some Russian outfit(s) I chanced across. Some of those old soldiers can be pretty nasty and greasy.

Newer stuff from "over there" and all the major brands are typically clean and dry. But I do carefully look at the sprues- guess it's that "once burned..." reflex. And if they appear to be dirty (or smell oily), I dunk 'em before I build 'em.

Figure it's no harm! (as long as you don't use hot water.... )

Cheers!

Bob
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 12:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

And I also wash the sprues before the build- gets the mold-release oils off before you start.


Has anybody ever had a problem with mold-release oils on sprues produced in the last 10 years ... from any of the big manufacturers? Ive often read about this problem but never encountered it myself. When I heard of this happening it was usually from older Eastern European companies, but MiniArt and Masterbox figures and buildings sets that I have used appear oil free.
Is this just a fear that has survived from the previous decades?
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:16 AM UTC
Hi Iain,
Thanks for the Vallejo primer advice. I'm going to look into getting some as all three colours are readily available on ebay.
Thanks again mate.
Joe.
collin26
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 03:33 PM UTC
Friend,
Vallejo airbrushable primers are a wise choice. They are available in white, grey, and black. This range of primer colors will enable you to shade while you rpime and thus avoiding pilling up even more layers of paint on top of the fine details on your model surface. I hope this helps.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 08:07 AM UTC
Hi fellas,
Wow! It's great to hear all this different information on best primers & cleaning products for your model. It seems everybody has their own personal preference not only with cleaning but also with their choice of primers. And many dont even prime at all! Very interesting!
Keep your opinions coming as I'm very interested in what you have to say.
Joe.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 07:12 AM UTC
Joe;

As you noted, the Floquil "Base Black Figure-Primer" in the 3-oz spray-can is product F330010. Web sites also indicate this same product as FLOF330010 or as FLO330010.

The Floquil Railroad Enamel (comes in the 1.0 oz bottle) I use is "FLO110010 Engine black".

When I Google "Floquil paints" or "Floquil primer", I get numerous listings for e-stores which market these product - lines, so, it is "widely available" via the Web, at least here in the USA. (Purveyors include a range of hobby and modeling sites, art supplies/art paints sites, model railroad sites- MicroMark Tools also sell the stuff.).

I'm getting the impression that shipping paints to UK and importing them into UK might be complicated? I know NOTHING as to the international shipping issues with this stuff!

"www.Testors.com" is the "Floquil" producer company site - and maybe these folks could be most helpful in working a way for you to get some? And maybe some eBay seller will slip it over...

But, frankly, doesn't sound entirely hopeful! You may be better advised to go with something you can get over there and "let this one be"?

@Frank / Hellhound:

Hey! Nice to see other fans of cleaning builds in dish-liquid and water out there! I suggested this a while back at my local club meeting and was met by silence and quizzical stares! It does work well, "But do your kit first, like fine glass-ware, and not after the pots and pans - bits of pasta and cheese hanging around the hatches is a no-go when you paint."

And I also wash the sprues before the build- gets the mold-release oils off before you start. These may be a bit more reluctant than are your finger-prints.

Cheers! Bob
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 06:58 AM UTC
Joe,

Like Frank said, I believe the UK equivalent is Windowlene. Look for any alcohol and ammonia window cleaner in a spray bottle.
meaty_hellhound
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 06:33 AM UTC
the best part of priming for me is to find imperfections. gives me one last chance to review how everything is before spending time painting colours. i have always cleaned my models with warm water in the sink with a gentle dish soap but may try Windex too. one thing i read recently is someone was scrubbing the model's plastic frets/trays even before cutting parts off for assembly to remove the release agent used in the manufacturing process... thought it was a nice tip.

cheers, mh
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 06:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You mentioned in your previous reply about surface preparation & to cover the model with Windex. I'm not sure if we have this product in the UK so can anybody point me in the right direction to an equivalent product that is available over here, please?


Windowlean? Im guessing the windex is an alcohol/ethanol based product? Windowlean or Ajax window cleaner would do the same. Just check the compsition and make sure its an alcohol based cleaner.

I fill a bowl with warm water and a good squirt of washing up liquid. Set your built model in this for about 20 minutes or so, and rinse really well with luke warm water. Leave in a dust free box for a day or so until it dries.

I prime sometimes when having multi coloured bits, but have sprayed Tamiya directly as well on similar. Never had a problem with it either way and could agree that priming may be a pointless exercise. Many have recommended Games workshop primers ... they are good but they are quite expensive. I use a hobby primer from an auto/DIY shop and it works every bit as well as the games workshop primer, and is about one third of the price.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 04:35 AM UTC
Hi Matt,
Just a quick question. You mentioned in your previous reply about surface preparation & to cover the model with Windex. I'm not sure if we have this product in the UK so can anybody point me in the right direction to an equivalent product that is available over here, please?
Thanks guys.
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 04:10 AM UTC
Hi Bob,
Like you, I would prefer something that can be sprayed through an airbrush. Could you let me have the product code of the Floquil black primer you use & perhaps some details of where I might be able to get it from, please?
Thanks my friend. I look forward to hearing from you.
Joe.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 01:44 AM UTC
Joe;

IF you can get it, that rattlecan Floquil 330010 black primer would be just the thing for you!

My personal preference is for the solvent-based Floquil RR enamels (NOT the water-soluble acrylic "Pollyscale") which come in 1.0 oz bottles. Both the rattlecan RR primer and the Floquil RR enamels shot thinned from the AB produce a very fine-grained, tight enamel coat. I really prefer the AB route just for the reasons folks previously noted: cans can be like "fire hoses" and I really like THIN coats and control.

It's only my preference and opine favoring the Floquil stuff - don't by any means skip past those other products folks have mentioned- one or another may be more readily available to you and they clearly work well!


Good Luck! Bob
bpunchy
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Posted: Monday, September 13, 2010 - 01:38 AM UTC
Hi mates , hi Joe ,
man I gotta love SSgt Toms method of preparation before painting . If you dont clean off all the fluff and filings before painting , as soon as you undercoat then all that stuff is stuck for good .
I like Tamiya surface primer out of the spray can by the way , Joe .
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 01:39 PM UTC
Hi Bob,
Nice to hear from you again. No, I dont think Floquil is available over here but I can pick some up on ebay from the US if they'll ship it to me. Is it Floquil F330010 Black Base Primer in a 3oz tin the one I need to buy?
Joe.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 01:11 PM UTC
Joe;

I have no idea as to the availability of Floquil paints in the UK. You can order them from our side a the pond, of course. Or, if you are interested in fine enamels, I think you could do pretty well with Humbrol- which (at least it used to be) is something you folks have access to. (Wasn't it made "over there"?)

I heartily agree with SSGTOMS: You really don't need to "PRIME" most builds. Specially if the kit is CLEAN.

Cleaning a built kit does wonders. I've not done the "Windex" thing, but have used isopropyl alcohol (dissolves fingerprints, etc.) and usually simply swim my builds in a pot or bowl of luke-warm water with just a little dish liquid. Followed by good rinses in clean cool water, and let it fully dry before painting.

Regardless of what cleaner you use, a clean kit will paint well.

I "prime" my cleaned kits with Floquil RR black enamel- this is really mostly to get a uniform base coat over multiple media of different colours, and to serve as a "revealer" of surface details and possible errors, as well as "pre-shading" for a lighter base-coat to follow.. That Floquil also provides a nice surface for all sorts of follow-on paints. (the PRIMER function- but not my primary focus)

I think the point folks should really pay attention to is to watch for obscuring details. I have no experience with either "auto primers" or those "acryl" primers like SSGToms ref'd- I am sure that they work well. I myself always think "keep it as thin as possible". Hence my love for micro-thin paints like Floquil!

Cheers!

Bob
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:47 AM UTC
Matt,
You have a PM incoming.
Joe.
Bigskip
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 09:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I will be doing a review on all three Vallejo primers soon.



I'll look forward to this, always keen to find new products to buy and use.

Andy
SSGToms
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 09:19 AM UTC
Hi Joe,

A couple things here.
First, surface prep is more important than primer for good paint adhesion. Before he moved to Maryland, Steve Zaloga used to come over my house on a regular basis and I learned a lot from him. One thing was to cover your detail with as little paint as possible. 99% of the time you don't have to prime. Modern acrylics will adhere to clean styrene, PE, and resin, no problem.
To prep the model for painting, take it to the kitchen sink. With a spray bottle of Windex, hose down the model, drenching it completely several times on all surfaces. This removes the mold release, skin oils, dust, and dirt. It also does it without scrubbing the model and breaking off parts. Then, turn on cool water and using the sink sprayer on low pressure, rinse the model thoroughly. Put the model in a clean plastic tote with the cover ajar so it dries dust free. Your paint will stick perfectly to all surfaces.
When building resin or using a lot of putty, then it's a good idea to prime, but more to reveal surface imperfections than anything else. When I did prime, I used to use Krylon grey primer but was never happy with it because of how thick a layer of paint that spray cans put out. Spray cans are fine for 1:1 cars but just too much for models. A spray can is like a fire hose, when an airbrush is like a hypodermic needle. 1 coat from a spray can is thicker than 5 coats from an airbrush.
I completely recommend using primer through an airbrush. Several companies make a primer in their line. I use Vallejo primers and I highly recommend them. Vallejo primer comes in white, grey, and black, so you can key your primer to your base paint color. It is an excellent product and is easy to use.
I will be doing a review on all three Vallejo primers soon.
Bigskip
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 08:56 AM UTC
a light spray from a rattle can does it for me, but you can always spray down a straw into a suitable container, than use this through airbrush..

A
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 07:34 AM UTC
Hi fellas,
It sounds like most of these primers are out of a can. Do you not apply the primer with an airbrush then?
Joe.
Bigskip
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 06:54 AM UTC
Hellfrauds Grey auto primer for me, white for figures though..

Andy
Sandy
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 06:24 AM UTC
Hi the best and cheapest is from Poundland , yes it is only 1-00 per tin and three times as much paint as all the others , comes in light grey , semi gloss black and matt white , Give it a try cheers ian
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 05:53 AM UTC
Hi Bob,
Is Floquil available in the UK or do I need to buy from the US?
Joe.