Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
What If 3:Rise of the Machines Campaign
vonHengest
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 12:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't really remember Jeremy! They're all 'what-ifs' though so we're not completely off-topic.



Haha, not a problem, as long as nobody accidentally transfers their thoughts into their project. This is a "grounded" campaign


One of my favorite things about the What-If campaigns is the amount of interaction between everyone and the creativity that goes with it. It's great to see you all in action
zontar
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Posted: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 07:23 AM UTC
Alex: Thanks for the clarification. I know Carla is going to be cool either way.

Some more progress from my end last night:





I still hae a few seams to clean up and the second gun to build. I also plan on scratching fuel lines and power/control cables connecting the gun to the body. Still haven't decided how to paint this thing. Perhaps a slightly more modern take on an urban camo scheme...

Happy Modeling, -zon
Bluestab
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Posted: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 06:10 PM UTC
Zon, I ended up beefing up the shaft. I used short lengths of styrene tubing and slid them over the kit's shaft. I tried a few support arm ideas and it just didn't work out. I'd like to work out a way so I can pose the launcher elevated into a firing position.

zontar
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Posted: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 09:00 PM UTC
Alex: I was thinking vertical worm screws, one on each side of the turret where the cross bar is toward the front of the turret. Or (this might be too much re- work) you could put the pivot point at the front of the turret and raise/lower at the back, where you have the pivot point now. I could sketch this if you'd like.

Also I remember your concern about how cluttered the top of the turret might become. You might consider putting the access hatch on the side, like a typical pz IV loader hatch, leaving the top hatch for periscopes. Would hate to have my head sticking out of there when the rockets go off.

Happy Modeling, - zon
Bluestab
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 04:31 AM UTC
Zon, I thought about using the side hatches from the panzer 4 kit and even have a set of turret side hatches from a panzer 3. And just not even have a commander's cupola type hatch on the top. The front facing periscopes are blocked by part of the launcher anyway. Either fill in the hole or maybe a simple hatch. Both sets of side hatches will fit.

My worry is that the side hatches clutter up the turret and make adding screw shaft style elevators more difficult. The ICM Katyusha kit actually comes with two elevator shaft assemblies, one extended and one not.

I like the worm screw idea. To be honest, I'd love to use a real metal screw and be able to adjust the turret elevation. Unfortunately the guy at the hardware store thinks I'm crazy for asking if they had a 1/16th or 1/32 diameter bolt.

I appreciate the suggestions and I'm actually rethinking parts of this launcher design. I think it can be streamlined and improved. I really think I got ahead of myself on this one, rushing the design. I'm working on the trailer right now. I might take a week off from this one and just see what a break will do for me.

zontar
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 07:04 AM UTC
Alex: sounds good to take a break for a bit and return with "fresh eyes" to the problem.

More progress last night on the walker. Next is putty.





The major components are not glued yet as I'm thinking it will be easier to paint the individual pieces. Still not decided on the camo.

Happy Modeling, -zon
Bluestab
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 09:23 AM UTC
Zon, I'm liking the look of that walker. If it had shorter guns I'd suggest an urban based camo scheme. Call it a city brawler. But with their size and I assume range, I'd go with something more along the lines of an ambush scheme. Get it out there in the open steppes and sniper the targets.
zontar
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 09:58 AM UTC
Alex: You are absolutely correct!! I never considered the barrel length, but always saw this in the ruins of Stalingrad. And I glued the barrels in last night
Maybe I can find some de-bonder around here and replace the barrels with some stubbies. Dang-it, now I have two more problems to solve Thanks for the input!

Happy Modeling, -zon
Bluestab
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 10:19 AM UTC
Zon, I like the long guns. They give it a nifty look. I think you could get away with keeping them long. For its cam how about something urbanish. Maybe green with splintered gray/green and black.
corsair924
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 12:40 PM UTC
Jeremy
So you're demanding only ground based.
Does it have to be human made?




Hey, the tripod is touching the bottom. . .
zontar
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 02:04 PM UTC
Alex: I've ordered some short barrels, but it still depends on finding de-bonder (hoping to salvage the barrels for future use). Nobody here has it and most places on the mainland won't ship it. So I might still keep the long barrels anyway, or perhaps one of each...

That's the direction I was heading with the camo too. I also want to mix in some red-brown to go with the bricks. I recently saw a documentary on Stalingrad and it showed the buildings were mostly brick shells with concrete frames, so I'm thinking to key off those colors in a field applied camo over a typical Soviet green base scheme.

J: interesting vehicle. Maybe a land based version with tracked feet?

Happy Modeling, -zon
Bluestab
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 04:12 PM UTC
Zon, I'd stick with the long guns before risking tearing them up. They may be a bit long for urban warfare, but I think they fit the walker. The red-brown is a great idea. Not just for the bricks but also for rusted metal. I figure there'd be a great deal of metalwork exposed to the elements and rust.
zontar
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2012 - 03:24 PM UTC
Alex: the problem now is that you've got me thinking! I'm really curious how short barreled canons would look. I might need a second walker...

Happy Modeling, -zon
Bluestab
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 05:50 AM UTC
I got an idea on my Carla problem this morning. I'm thinking of scrapping the turret entirely. I'll scratch a slightly raised superstructure atop the panzer hull and mount the launcher there. I tried to get too fancy with it. I'll see how that goes and tweak the backstory as needed.
Bluestab
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Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 06:12 PM UTC
Update to previous back-story to reflect design changed.

The turreted Carla rocket launchers showed mixed results. The launchers and German versions of the rockets all performed well. The launcher turret showed immediate weaknesses with the elevation mechanism.

The hinge shaft would often sheer off and break under the weight load. The drive mechanism would also weaken under prolonged elevation. Many crews used a length of wood, like a shovel handle, to help prop the launcher up.

Munition officials would discover that any resources savings that were gained by using the Soviet launchers and Soviet designed rockets were squandered by the resources needed to create and maintain the turret launching system.

The German Command was forced to revisit the design. They omitted the turret and mounted the launcher atop the Panzer IV hull. The turret rings were covered over with plating and the underside reinforced to carry the weight of the launcher.

The revised Carlas performed well in tests. Some models were equipped with electric motors for the elevation worm screw.

The Carlas' redesign had postponed redeployment until late in the war. They were reorganized into individual rocket artillery batteries and attached to reinforcement units. Primarily, they served on the Eastern Front.

Carla batteries were used in the failed Lukto Counter-offensive of February 1945. Two batteries attempted to open a breach in the Soviet lines. When the attack failed, the batteries were instrumental in providing cover fire for the German forces' withdrawal.



vonHengest
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 07:32 PM UTC
Zon: The Sino-Soviet weapons are/were used in cities regardless of their weapons. Besides, those are "hunting" guns so they pretty much belong wherever the enemy is. I'd just leave them as is. Btw, I love the way the mods are looking on that little beast!

J: Hey if you wanted to make a jello tank crewed by gummybears it would pretty much fit the bill, so yes "extra-terrestrial" is definitely in and any "walker" counts as a ground vehicle so go for it!

Alex: I think we all try to get a little to fancy when we really get into our projects, and nice alteration on the backstory! I can see the crews trying this in real life, what's your next step?
Tiger_213
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 08:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

J: Hey if you wanted to make a jello tank crewed by gummybears it would pretty much fit the bill



Bluestab
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:45 AM UTC
Jeremy: I got on a roll over the past few days. Locked down the revised design. I spent most of last night doing bolt detail on the cover platform and fabbing the access hatches for the covered over fighting compartment. I should wrap it up tonight. I've been able to use the kit launcher mounts so that's saved me alot of trouble. I'll send it to paint after I finish the trailer. I've still got to come up with storage crates for the sixteen reload rockets. I might cheat on that one though. I still have to find a feasible hitch for the Panzer.

I'm taking pictures as I go and will try to get some of those up this weekend.

That's all we need...to teach Gummy Bears how to kill.
zontar
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 01:41 PM UTC
Alex: Nice re-work on the story. Looking forward to the prototype.

Jeremy: Thanks for the comments. I will leave the guns as is, but will put another walker on the wishlist to see what stubby guns would be like.

Been swamped with getting Blitz 4 finished out, so no progress here, but am now thinking up the base...

Happy Modeling, -zon
vonHengest
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 03:20 PM UTC
Don't worry about the gummy bears, their ammo is edible to us.. if not a bit fattening

Alex: I can't wait to see your next photos! As for the crates, it seems that a lot of AM versions have been coming out in the past year or two. Unless you want to scratch them?

Zon: My pleasure! I wouldn't mind getting my hands on more of those kits in either 1/48 or 1/35. The resin is wonderful to work with and they are so easy to modify.
Bluestab
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 06:09 AM UTC
Jeremy, I was going to scratchbuild the crates. I made a crate to hold two. Then I decided to cheat based on a similar ammo limber I made for a US M8 gun carriage. I'll cover the crates with a tissue paper tarp and use a couple of crates to give it a general shape of crates underneath.

I'm still debating on a base. I usually try to mount a vehicle with a trailer or towed artillery piece to some sort of base to keep them together and stable. Maybe a scene from the mythical Lutko Counter-Offensive. I'm liking the Lutko scenario. I might use it in future What-If, Last Gasp, and Paper Panzer based projects. Over time, flesh out the offensive with units from both sides. Hmm...Lutko Campaign?

1721Lancers
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 07:31 AM UTC
Hi there,
Ive just finnished "modelling a foto 2" and thought Id jump in here now.
I have no back story yet, but Ill think of something. If its a must then ignore my start pictures and Ill come back later
Im sticking with the idea of the Jagdpanzer III 128mm Zwilling.
the base kit


the start, lengthen the hull


see you later
Paul
vonHengest
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 05:16 PM UTC
Alex: That sounds like a lot of fun, I'd definitely go for an expanded theme

Paul: That's still my favorite of your choices! Would you want them to be able to elevate independently from each other, or permanently locked in unison?
zontar
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Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 04:16 AM UTC
Jeremy: They are decent little kits. As I recall you had one at 1/35. I have this one and the German Jagdluther, both at 1/48. The legs and main body are identical between the two kits, while the resin makes the differences. I'm sure this is a production efficiency since the artwork shows different legs. And you are right about the resin; much easier to work with than usual AM stuff.

Paul: Nice to see this coming together.

Happy Modeling, -zon
1721Lancers
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Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 06:04 AM UTC
Hi Jeremy, I hadnt thought of that till you mentioned it.
So, Ill let them be laid in unison and fired seperately, that way if something big and ugly turns up that cant be destroyed with a single APFSDS at 3000 meters, then just let `em chew on a second one within a second.

Hi Zon, that was only the first cut, I just hope I can pull off. I see Problems with the mantlets, at the moment I have know idea on how to realize them. Ill think of something, its still a way to go until I need them.

Paul