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Armor/AFV: Canadian Armor
Discuss all types of Canadian Armor of all eras.
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Riich Models RV35011
Okpik031
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: February 12, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 12:49 PM UTC
Its just a thought for you guys building the Canadian version if you contact the Hastings and Prince Edward Regt they may be able to help you with photos of Katie since it was their carrier in Italy. While I was with the Regiment in the late 80's "Katie" did make appearances on some parades and at least was in running order then I would expect it still is as it part of our history. It is a very proud infantry regiment of the Canadian Army and here is a link http://www.theregiment.ca/hastypee.html From this you should be able to contact anyone you need to but I would start with the Museum. The fellow that looks after that is very helpful and knowledgeable about the background and exploits of the Regiment.

Best of look with your build and I hope this will help you out.

PARATUS
SdAufKla
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 01:16 PM UTC
Thanks for the suggestion, Al.

Hopefully someone can use that info.

As for this build, I'm doing an un-photographed (i.e. representational) carrier from the 4th Princess Louise's Dragoon Guards.

Happy modeling!
Okpik031
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 02:18 PM UTC
I just thought I would throw that in the mix because of the decals included in the kit. Anyway they may have pics that will help with the equipment layout for your model. Anyways happy modeling
1stjaeger
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 06:56 PM UTC
wow!!

Sure you don't need me saying so, but this is absolutely amazing!!

Your patience and your skills seem boundless!

Cheers

Romain
jrutman
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 01:37 AM UTC
Well thought out essay on scratching small bits! I am guessing maybe you prepared a few briefings in your lifetime? Heh heh.
The modeler in me is given a warm and fuzzy over the tripod but the grunt in me is cringing thinking about how heavy the real one must have been and the poor sods that had to carry one.
Impressive as always dude,
J
jvazquez
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 26, 2006
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 02:41 AM UTC
Wow this is some good stuff Mike!

I'm happy I never bought this kit. To even try to make it look anything like what you've done..

RLlockie
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United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 07:42 AM UTC
Fine work there Mike. Particularly impressed that you spent so much effort on areas which will be completely hidden; that's proper dedication....

I see that your tripod has the traversing arc with the scale in brass. I have one of these upstairs (v. heavy it is too!) and on my example it is black; were some unpainted?

Any chance of posting the measurements of that Control Unit No.2? I need to build a few and don't come across them very often.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 05:48 AM UTC
@ Al: Modelers should be aware that the painting instructions in the Riich kit for "Katie" are generally considered incorrect. Barry Beldam has correct profiles and markings for "Katie" on his Armoured Acorn website:

Armoured Acorn::Canadian Vehicle Markings::Part 22 "Carriers Here and There"

There are also correct profiles for "Katie" in Beldam's book (co-author Guthrie): Armor Color Gallery #5 "Camouflage & Markings of Canadian Armored Vehicles in World War Two," part (volume) 2, page 57.

(The Riich box top art is generally correct, but the instructions inside show the wrong camouflage colors.)

@ Romain: Thank you, sir, for the kind words.

@ Jerry: Yea, I'm a certified "Power Ranger." You even get a little bolo-badge when you move to a staff position!

I'm thinking that tripod must have weighed in at around 40+ pounds, and looking at how it's secured in the carrier, I'd guess most crews simply left it loose and stuffed bags and junk around it to keep it from banging around too much! On the scales, I think it'd rival the tripod for the Ma Duce, yet another dainty beauty best left sandbagged in the fighting position when you do a relief in place.

("Tell the relieving unit to leave their tripod in the assembly area. They can have this one, and we'll pick their's up when we pass through... Better, yet, just tell 'em to leave their's on the truck. This here tripod ain't going nowhere.")

@ James: Thanks, also, for the complements, but don't sell yourself short! This is a very nice little kit, and aside from the figures, has assembled very nicely. Lots of little parts to clean-up, to be sure, but it's still just injection molded styrene...

@ Robert: Well, sometimes you can't be sure what will or won't be visible until you reach a certain point. Hopefully, most of this will remain visible (maybe with a flashlight!) on the finished build.

Back to the subject of the Bren tripod, I looked at a lot of photos to try to figure out how to paint mine.

To be honest, the vast majority of the scales on the traverse arc were bare metal - apparently steel. I only found one photo of the scale on the arc painted, and it was chipped all to heck.

(Interestingly enough, many of the tripods appeared to be overall parkerized, but most of the ones I looked at had the legs painted.)

I did find a SINGLE photo of a traversing arc that appeared to have a scale made of bronze (brass was probably too soft). It was clearly bare metal, and the color was a "tanish" brown with metallic highlights. So, simply for the contrast and visual interest, that's what I'm shooting for on my tripod. With weathering, what now looks very bright and brassy, should darken up to a more "bronzy" look.

Given that I only saw a single photo of such a traversing arc, and the fact that copper and nickle were scarce strategic materials during the war, I suspect that only very early - probably only pre-war - manufactured Bren tripods had traversing arc scales made of something other than steel. And that's still just a guess. The one I'm basing my build on could just be covered with light surface rust coupled with bad photography...

In regards to the Wireless Set No. 19, Control Unit No. 2, here are some sketches with prototype dimensions and a couple of additional photos of the one in my collection:











Looking over my construction notes (scratch pad - really!), it looks like I made my control unit 3.5 mm H x 3 mm W on a 3.5 mm H x 4 mm W mounting plate. I used .010" x .020" strip to replicate the edges of the "lid" (sanded down after the glue-up dried but leaving the overall dimensions slightly larger). The knobs and other details were made with my punch and die set, but I didn't record the dimensions used. (I probably just used what was visually proportional - i.e. "what looked right.")

The photos should show the markings clearly enough. They are applied in black ink (actually most likely black paint) with a stamp.

HTH,
jrutman
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:05 AM UTC
Ok,with that last display of graphics and research now you are just showin off brother! Heheh
But in a GOOD way,
J
SdAufKla
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 11:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok,with that last display of graphics and research now you are just showin off brother! Heheh
But in a GOOD way,
J




Oh no, bra! Showin' off's what Two-Ell-Tees and Double-U-Oh-Ones do when they learn to use the animated settings on PowerPoint...

This here's just the work of a man who leaned the bitter recon lesson the hard way. It's always better to put too much info in a report than have to hump back to the Oh-Bee-Jay and collect the answer to that one question you didn't get the first time!

Here's hoping that this answers Robert's RFI, so I'll never have to walk that azimuth again!

Later mate!
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 03:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ok,with that last display of graphics and research now you are just showin off brother! Heheh
But in a GOOD way,
J




Oh no, bra! Showin' off's what Two-Ell-Tees and Double-U-Oh-Ones do when they learn to use the animated settings on PowerPoint...

This here's just the work of a man who leaned the bitter recon lesson the hard way. It's always better to put too much info in a report than have to hump back to the Oh-Bee-Jay and collect the answer to that one question you didn't get the first time!

Here's hoping that this answers Robert's RFI, so I'll never have to walk that azimuth again!

Later mate!



I listen to so many languages on TV or daily life concerning different jobs and ways of life. Nice to read one here than I can relate to for once.
J
Keef1648
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South Carolina, United States
Joined: January 23, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 12:06 AM UTC
A HUGE thank you to Mike for bringing his Carrier to our monthy AMPS meeting last night.

It is truely a first class build (albeit out of the box)

The colors, shadows and shading (filtering) are really masterful and adds so much more dimensionally and visually to this little gem.

The miniature radio (No. 19 set) is amazing.

As Mike has indicated, much will be gone/hidden from view when things get closed up but again, a lot of this is in the pleasure of the build.

The figures are certainly benefitting from the reworking of the poses... Just as well, they wouldn't fit otherwise.

I am looking forward to seeing more updates here as Mike moves forwards with this exceptional build.

Keith.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 01:39 PM UTC
@ Jerry: Oh yea, my friend, I know exactly what you're saying...

@ Keith: Thanks mate!

So, a little up-date-

I've finally finished all of the interior paining (except the front hull and glacis) and am now ready to close up the hull.

As the following photos will show, I've decided to paint all of the hull component interors separately and then bring them together. This has allowed me to, hopefully, paint the interior to a high degree. The interior space is so very constricted that I didn't think that I could do an acceptable job after assembly. Not only were the interior areas pretty inaccessible with a brush, but I was concerned with trying to airbrush down into what are essentially three small, deep holes.

To summarize the basic finish:

1) Many areas received a primer coat of Floquil Oxide Red.
2) The base coat was a pre-shaded G3 Khaki-Green.
3) I then painted the details with acrylics (artist oils for all of the seat cushions).
4) The basic finish was "distressed" with "sponge chipping" and additional "chipping" applied by brush.
5) Color modulation, pin washes and rain / rust streaking was accomplished all together using artist oil paints and mineral spirits. All of this was done at once (with each color applied one at a time, though, to maintain the distinctions) since the areas being painted were so small.
6) A "dust" glaze was airbrushed all over.
7) A final clear flat coat of Testor's Dull Coat was applied.

These basic steps were followed for all of the separate parts as shown in the photos. (Note the blue tape strips were applied to keep the gluing surfaces clear of paint. This is just ordinary blue painter's tape cut into narrow strips with an X-acto knife.)

Here are all of the basic hull parts ready for assembly.



Here are a couple of close-ups of the right hull side parts.





Obviously some intermediate assembly was done with the antenna cables and other radio components.

Here are the left hull side parts.



Here's an overview of the center hull sub-assembly and close-ups of the driver's and gunner's positions, as well as the sides of the engine compartment.











If you compare these photos to the earlier ones taken right after some of the detail painting and chipping, you will hopefully note how the high contrast between these areas and the base coats is now much muted.

Of course, there are several details that I finished separately and which will be added in the next assembly stage.



All of the small details were painted exactly the same as the larger parts to maintain continuity of the overall finish. As examples, below are close-ups of some of these.







My planned sequence of assembly is:

1) Lower hull sides.
2) Front seat control lever stops on lower hull sides (parts A33 and A34).
3) Duck boards.
4) Bren Tripod.
5) Bren AA mount and canvas straps.
6) Fenders.
7) Seat cushions (back cushions for driver and gunner and radio operator.
8) Radio power cable.
9) Upper hull sides.

This should give me a completed hull tub minus the front hull and glacis.

I'll finish posing the radio operator using the plastic radio face guard as a sculpting tool to make the folds in his right hip area to correspond with the model radio.

The radio operator will have to be painted and installed into the carrier before I can add the finished radio,so the radio will remain an unattached sub-assembly for now.

I will assemble the front hull and glacis (keeping it as a separate sub-assembly but dry-fit to the hull tub) so that I can finish posing the gunner figure. I believe that test fitting / dry-fitting is going to show that that driver will have to be painted and installed before the finished front hull can be glued on.

Hopefully tomorrow, I'll have some time at the workbench to assemble the hull tub, as described above, and get up a few more "happy snaps."

Happy modeling!


SdAufKla
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South Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 09:32 AM UTC
So, some lower hull glue up today. I didn't make quite the progress that I was hoping for, though.

The fenders required some clamping in the vertical axis at both the firewall and the rear hull wall. Also, the top edge of the right side lower hull needed to be wedged out just slightly in order to form a tight fit with the inner edge of the right fender. Since this edge will be very visible next to the radio operator's position (and the figure and radio will invite close inspection), some extra time getting it right is worth the slight delay in planned progress.

Here are a couple of pictures of the lower hull glue up as it stands right now.





The sequence for this was pretty much as I expected and listed in the last post.

I had no trouble with the scratch-built tripod clamps. I did find that I had to install the duck board with the rifle and tripod stowage brackets at the same time as I permanently glued in the tripod.

I tried to get a picture of this entire area, but the clamps got in the way of the camera. However, in this picture, you can just see the tripod clamps above the top edge of the long (Bren MG?) stowage box.



Here's a close-up of the gunner's seat in its final installation. You can see the crescent bracket that traps the positioning lever against the lower hull wall. I did have to cut off one of the molded on locator pins on each of these parts (the same relative position on each side). Once these parts were glued on trapping the levers, the seats are fixed in position and actually don't have any other glue holding then into the carrier.



That's all for today.

I've said it several times already, but the fit on the kit parts is quite amazing, especially considering the sheer number of parts. The hull parts are commendably thin (probably in the .020 - .025 thickness range) and consequently quite flexible. However, despite this, the parts fit very nicely. I have had to clamp a number of the hull parts, but this is probably because I've altered the assembly sequence along with a bit of paint here and there.

I think if you were simply assembling the raw plastic parts and were careful with clean-up, the fit would be about as perfect as it gets.

'Til next time...
Keef1648
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 09:36 AM UTC
Thank's for the update Mike, better to measure twice and cut once than hurry with this wee beastie.

Lovely build, you enspire us all...

Keith.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 10:45 AM UTC
@ Keith: Oh yea, no hurry or worry.

Don't know about that inspiration stuff, though. Looks like just me and thee here. No matter...

I was goofing off with the photos and rather liked the lighting on this one, so here's a slightly different angle.



Cheers!
Big-John
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 11:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't know about that inspiration stuff, though. Looks like just me and thee here. No matter...




Oh yeah, very inspirational!!!!!!
knewton
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New Zealand
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 08:00 PM UTC
been a long time followers of this. Once finished, I will print (& edit for content) this as a reference on how I want mine to come out. If I get it half like this, I will be very pleased.

Keep up the great work!

Kylie
Keef1648
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 11:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

@ Keith: Oh yea, no hurry or worry.

Don't know about that inspiration stuff, though. Looks like just me and thee here. No matter...

I was goofing off with the photos and rather liked the lighting on this one, so here's a slightly different angle.



Cheers!



Not bad Mike, the wood props (spacers) are bit 'underweathered' though!



Keith.
jrutman
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 - 04:36 AM UTC
Yup,I see those chips and dings look a whole lot better with the toning down. Looked a little cartoonish before.
Lookin really good and as I've said,more detail per square inch than anything I've yet seen!
J
SdAufKla
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 - 10:33 AM UTC
@ Big John: Oh, sorry about that comment. It was a moment of self-indulgent weakness, but I'm glad that you're still keeping an eye on the thread.

@ Kylie: I hope you still find it useful all the way to the bitter end. It's a sweet little kit. I'll look forward to seeing yours posted up here when you get to it.

@ Keith: What?! You don't like the timbers? I was experimenting around with a nautical theme - maybe a damage control vignette with the carrier badged-up in Royal Marine markings and submerged up to the fenders.

(That way I don't have to build the suspension... You know me, always looking for a shortcut!)

I thought I'd entitle it something like "Torpedoes off the Starboard Bow!" or some such...

But to hear now that you don't like it. I'm crushed!

@ Jerry: Well, I guess it's all about shadows, highlights and contrasts. I think that sometimes you have to start off with tons of contrast to compensate for the weathering and other scale lighting effects.

That, and the space involved is so small that without the contrasts the detail would simply go un-noticed.

The entire carrier is 4 inches long from fender tip to fender tip and only 2-1/8 inches wide.

Anyways, it's starting to look like a carrier now...

An up-date to follow in the next post.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 - 10:56 AM UTC
So, after allowing the lower hull sides and fenders to dry overnight, I caught up on things today.

I have to say, the thing is starting to finally look like a carrier, but dang, it is small. I think I'll tease the airplane guys at the IPMS meeting about it being all cockpit and no wings!

Anyways, I added the final interior details, like the webbing strap handles on the Mills Bomb boxes, the flair box, and the retention straps on the "mystery" brackets (which are holding my Bren MG anti-aircraft mount). I also added the seat back cushions and the power cable for the radio.

The it was on to the upper hull sides. These fit pretty well, but I did shave off the "segmented tongues" for the "tongue and groove" locators at the rear corners. I just took my time and glued the upper hull side parts on starting at the rear hull corners holding them until the glue had a chance to set up some, and then worked my way forward, doing one side then the other.

A little touch up with some small "squirts" of Testors Dull Coat to blend in a couple of glossy glue marks, and with the exception of putting the figures in, I'm about done with the interior... finally.

Some picture form today's work.









A few close-ups of the details. Keep in mind that the entire rear fighting and engine compartment is about 2 inches by 2 inches in size.













Finally, a test fit of the driver and gunner shows that they will still go into their assigned spaces. I was actually a little worried when I was putting the driver in. The tolerances are so tight that at first he wouldn't fit, but then I got him oriented correctly, and down he went!





This was a pretty big milestone in the build - getting the interior closed-up.

Next on the list is finishing the gunner and radio operator figures and the upper front hull / glacis. I'll finish the interior of the upper front hull / glacis in the same way as what I've done so far.

The driver's instrument panel promises to be another little detail jewel. Riich provides decals for the instruments and the other detail looks quite nice.

That's all for now.

Happy modeling!
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 01:57 AM UTC
Very nice to see it all buttoned up and those figgies fit like a glove as well.
Spoke to an old gent at Telford last year standing next to a Bren Carrier. Great stories he had too! He started to well up thinking about times long past. The display featured all of the old Commonwealth small arms as well and it was nice to see him get re-aquainted with old friends.
That Bren gun was pretty heavy. Pity the gunners.
This is turning out to be the usual steller build buddy,
J
RLlockie
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 07:06 AM UTC
Great stuff Mike.

Many thanks for all that info on the comms boxes, which was far more than I expected - I'd have been happy with three measurements!

In case it's of interest, I heaved my Bren tripod out of the spare room and it turns out to weigh in at 13.5kg, so just short of 30lbs. I certainly wouldn't fancy porting it about with the unpadded slings provided along with the rest of my gear. Bloody ingenious piece of kit though. Wish I had the space to set it up with my Bren on it.
MadModeler
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 02:16 AM UTC
I must admit, I have this kit in my store. And there has been a few times I thought about keeping it myself. But using the tape off the areas for glue. Plus painting all of it prior. (Amazing!)

All new to me. I usually put everything together then paint it. But I must try this way next time. I have a Mirror Model CMP I'm working on right now.