login   |    register
Dioramas: Large Scale
Dioramas with large scale (1/16 plus) subjects.
Hosted by Darren Baker
OIF USF-I QRF Mosul, Iraq 2007
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 11:55 AM UTC
Hey there my brother Pete, glad you think this project can go on a magazine. I take pride in doing this piece for fun and for my brothers as it will be eventually donated. I sure do enjoy just looking at the darn thing LOL and I would not mind sharing techniques with whoever wanted them that's for sure. Heck, I know what I know because of people out there who took the time to share the knowledge, so pay it forward I suppose...

I would not even know how to consider having this thing published - heck I am just happy with all you folks looking at it - LOL

Thanks for looking brother!
white4doc
#429
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 14, 2003
KitMaker: 1,079 posts
Armorama: 957 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 10:26 PM UTC
Pets's got a good point, Brother. This is something deserving of good documentation. Watching this take shape is like having watched Claude Joachim's Clerveaux diorama come together; your's has a personal touch to it only someone who's been there and lived it can give to a diorama. The spalling on the roof is well done, but one question if the irhabin was inside when the vest detonated, wouldn't the spalling pattern be reversed? I could be wrong/spacially challenged (either that or the caffiene has dropped below life sustaining levels again). Either way, the mosque looks great. Strong work, Brother!
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 11:36 PM UTC
Hi there John, wow! Any comparison to the amazing detailing work by the clever and talented Claude Joachim is an incredible compliment. Thank you!

So many of us here have experienced what this place looked like. As you know, all eyes from new privates E-1s to multi-rotation veterans will be looking at my build eventually when it ends up at the reserve center so I need to get it right the first time.

That is why I share my progression, the inputs are truly always needed, and welcomed. It can only make this project better and that's my goal.

I consider my hobby experience to be at a MID-level range solely based off total work done. This is my first diorama at this scale 1/35 and even in HO scale 1/87 I have only built one similar sized diorama which by the way is still a WIP.

As for the spalling/breaking of concrete by method of explosion and fragmentation, your observations are correct sir.

However I tend to build things in reverse layers - from the inside out. Sort of hard to explain but the reason I decided to add the extra building/detailing steps is to capture the deeper layers of details even if the added or removed work layers omit prior efforts from being seen ... I find that by working in this method more effects are produced in vivid fashions thus realism.

Concrete material is at its strongest when compressed but extremely weak when it is stretched - as a result, the combustion blast inside the mosque would by law stretch outward and force matter in that direction. The pressure cracks on both sides but the inside will be peppered by thousands of metal fragments resulting in spalling.

The heavy concrete remaining chunks attached to the exposed rebar rods will evenly sag back towards the ground...

The first few steps are pictured above, they simply represents the internal damage. The second phase of detailing will incorporate various fragmentation damages to the inside walls/roof. As many of us know, these horrific home made explosives (IED) were packed with rusty nails, bolts and various metal objects to inflict maximize carnage to whomever was in its careless path of destruction.

On the third phase of detailing I will break off large pieces of the damaged concrete and project blown outward rebar support rods displaying the wicked force of the detonation outward.

It's a long process and one I have never attempted. All of my work shown here is a first time practice run. The only reason why I think some of us find the results appealing is probably because of all the damn time I send on each step - lol ! The research time to search for various examples of what it should look like, and then the planning phases of how to best create it from the inside out...

Not sure if all the explanations above make any sense to you guys but in my head - lol - it does. I am hoping to get it right the first time because its too expensive to mess it up, trash it, then re-buy! LOL !

As for the documentation, the written stuff is only what we see here. I do however have all the progress pictures saved along with what I estimate to be about 5,000 PowerPoint reference slides to aid in the building/visual re-creation.


I am still working on the initial roof details and re-painting sections that had to be re-plastered... The last image shows mortar and bricks blended in one solid color which is the base. However, to detail correctly (another reverse step) I had to break off and re-define all the brick/stones by removing the dried plaster. Basically, re-drawing all the brick lines and cutting out the dried plaster. Then once it was all cleaned up I re-applied plaster giving the roof very defined mortar/brick/stone definitions. A little sanding and then re-painting. Sample images of this craziness will be posted soon. Almost forgot, too many steps, once that re-coat of paint dries, I will lightly sand off the outer edges of paint surfaces with steel wool to simulated aging bricks as these buildings are hundreds of years old in some cases- very important detailing step. After that, the initial weathering of grimy black.

A picture is best but just wanted to share my crazy methods for whoever wants it - lol.

JGphins
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 03:33 AM UTC
Long story short, hoping it looks something like this...


My reference for: Roof and wall rubble order



Rebar and concrete color tone...


Open source media
white4doc
#429
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 14, 2003
KitMaker: 1,079 posts
Armorama: 957 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 04:05 AM UTC
So I was spacially challenged -- couldn't conceive that I was already looking at the spalling on the interior. Not sure if it will help you much, but there is a seller on Shapeways that does a rebar template/mould to help with battle damaged buildings and debris. It's short money too, IIRC. I appreciate the info about how you're going about it, too. All this great info is why people are hoping you're keeping good notes, etc.
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 04:13 AM UTC
Good copy and thank you.

Hey John, take a look at your old buddy - I cant wait to tackle this project. I made real rust just for her! It's going to be fun!


JGphins
white4doc
#429
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 14, 2003
KitMaker: 1,079 posts
Armorama: 957 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 04:46 AM UTC
I'm psyched to see her in the hands of someone who's going to make her look good (well, our version of good).
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 11:19 AM UTC
WIP - ceiling view update: exposed rebar/framing

Pending various detailing work...


j76lr
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,070 posts
Armorama: 1,055 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 04:14 PM UTC
great work !! hell of a nice dio
jrutman
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,782 posts
Armorama: 7,776 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 06:39 PM UTC
Well well well,
First,let me thank you for posting pics of the first,completed portion of this epic masterwork. Nice to see again and also to be reminded of how great it is.
Second,that section of damaged wall is really spot on. You captured the look of the impression that concussion makes against a fixed object very accurately I think. Most guys make a very clean edge between the damaged and undamaged portion and it doesn't fool the eye,sort of like a bad mural at a Mexican restaurant.
NICE ! Something to be proud of.
J
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 12:27 AM UTC
Hello, today's brief update covers: The mosque's roof/ceiling. WIP currently 55% complete.

But first, thank you Jerry and Lou for taking the time to share feedback. Always, always, welcomed my brothers.

Progression rate:
The roof/ceiling detailing challenges continue... I'm currently on day 6 - estimated 20 hours.

Still needs about 5 to 6 additional steps to complete.

Added more rebar detailing, applied addition layers of powders, dry brushed edges, a little more steel wool sanding for aging...




Needs more of everything mentioned above X2 additional layers to complete the first phase: Structural Battle Damage Effects caused by close proximity improvised explosive device type: BBIED

In phase 2, I will apply additional details related to: Combustion and Fragmentation Effects:
Simulate layers of: Extreme heat and blast carnage effects. Add fire ball color tones, repeat fragmentation damage enhancements to roof and ceiling surfaces...

Phase 3 is the last, here I will add the final details as they relate to: Debris and Rubble...

Too much work, I may omit the 3-D blast simulation in the later phases of construction due to complexity.

Too early to tell but perhaps the "after effects" of the BBIED rather then the "moment of detonation" simulated will be a better option so that all these hard and time consuming detailing efforts are able to be enjoyed...

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed, thanks!

JGphins






strongarden
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 14, 2012
KitMaker: 730 posts
Armorama: 624 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 03:03 AM UTC
Great read thru J, just went back thru a few pgs!

It's always appreciated when something as involved as your project is created by someone who actually lived thru it dude.
Enjoyed the comments btwn Pete, John, and yourself. Really great "stuff" here, thanks guys for your service!

And also thanks for the explanations on the techniques, planning, and reasoning behind the scenes. I never considered all that goes into properly representing concrete destruction from a compacted explosion.

Brilliant!
Dave
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 04:32 AM UTC
Thanks Dave, appreciate the awesome feedback!

I enjoy the hobby and the challenges they present. It's extra work putting all this into words but...

Got to pay it forward! I have learned from many because they too took the time to share.

More to come!

JGphins

specmod
Visit this Community
Australia
Joined: August 12, 2009
KitMaker: 93 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 08:50 AM UTC
Hot dam , man, that is some awesome work you have done there. Well done, keep the pics coming, fantastic.
ReconTL3-1
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 07, 2006
KitMaker: 725 posts
Armorama: 686 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 11:14 PM UTC
Joaquin,

That is some excellent work you are doing with the buildings in this diorama. It looks quite real and brings back some memories of some of the things I saw over there. I wish I had your talent for making the building/structures look real. It helps that you've been there and know what it looks like. Having been there will also help you with the feeling conveyed when you include the figures. I am very impressed and wish I had been following your progress sooner.

Now that I have looked at this thread, I will be following it closely to admire your work and to get inspiration to try making some of my own buildings...and perhaps build a diorama depicting a place where I had served rather than Vietnam which has been a somewhat "safe" subject for me as I have always been interested in Vietnam since my dad served a couple of tours there and has provided me with several good subjects for figures and dioramas, and because I need to work on my vehicle building skills before I can make something featuring the vics we traveled in on patrols and on our way to objectives.

Keep up the great work.

Cheers,
James
oliver
Visit this Community
Beersheba, Israel
Joined: August 26, 2006
KitMaker: 119 posts
Armorama: 84 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 01:28 AM UTC
This is just getting better and better,really like your methods of getting the destruction right on the mark.learning a lot from your methods of doing things.Keep up the good work this project is amazing.
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 02:04 AM UTC
Good afternoon gentlemen, thank you for looking and a BIG LEAGUE thanks for the great feedback!!! I truly appreciate them.

James, thank you sir for your service to our country. Your feedback is exactly why I take the time out to share my work.

The results and techniques on display here are all my first time practice runs. I have countless researched methods acquired throughout the years that I never practiced. This project is a culmination of those methods & lessons learned.

I'm hoping that my shared techniques are easy to follow - but if you or anyone have questions in regards to specifics, just let me know.

Bottom line James, don't wait, envision your scene based off whatever space/size wanted. Then sketch away the possibilities to convey your own story on paper till you are satisfied with your drawings/ideas. If buildings are in the scene, make cardboard mock samples of all walls, tape them together and form the building(s) for your visual confirmation of presentation and see how they fit together before cutting the required foam pieces or chosen material.

You're half way there once you're done with this step. I think it's one of the hardest...

The rest is up to you, the possibilities are endless!

_________________________________________


Small update:
I am satisfied with the first layer of rebar setting BUT due to required handling the painting/weathering was not done prior to installing.

Simple fix!

1. dry brush strokes with water - only.
2. mix water with desired colors. I'm using grimy black and light rust.
3. apply dry brush strokes onto rebar pipes surface lightly. LET DRY and then REPEAT as needed.

I'll post results soon !

JGphins

JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 02:59 AM UTC
Update:

Ok so the above steps took about 30 minutes to achieve a look of which I'm satisfied with for the moment. Take a look:

First application - Rust


Second application - black


The black will later provide believability of burnt iron due to fire/explosion.

See how easy that is? Save this technique in your tool box and give it a try in the future. I'm sure your results will look the same or better!!!

Happy modeling!
JGphins
Dioramartin
Visit this Community
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 04, 2016
KitMaker: 1,359 posts
Armorama: 1,348 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 07:49 PM UTC
Now THAT is brilliant – and in natural light too by the look of it? Superb – maybe some real cement applied with a soft brush too?
Stickframe
#362
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2013
KitMaker: 1,599 posts
Armorama: 1,201 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 10:06 PM UTC
Hi JG - nice work as always! I really like the transition in destruction you accomplished - big cracks working on down to finer rubble - looks great!

Cheers
Nick
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2018 - 12:21 AM UTC
Thanks Tim/Nick for the positive feedback and your continued interest. Very appreciated!

It's a long process to get looking right... Hoping to repeat equal results to the remaining walls.

Thanks for looking folks !

JGphins
Lagumiles
Joined: December 30, 2003
KitMaker: 156 posts
Armorama: 135 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2018 - 12:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Good evening everyone, for tonight's update I wanted to share how I give blue-foam some plaster-character!

Apply a thin layer of ordinary house hold plaster

Thanks for looking!

JGphins




Are you adding some glue on the foam before putting the plaster or you add it directly to the foam?
Thanks Moreno and compliments again
cheyenne
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 05, 2005
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
Armorama: 1,734 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2018 - 07:28 PM UTC
Masterpiece JG , beautiful work , excellent details !!!
JGphins
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 243 posts
Armorama: 243 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2018 - 08:39 PM UTC
Hello Moreno & Cheyenne , thanks for stopping by. The foam pieces for the base and walls were first glued together with Elmer’s white glue. Then I applied a thin layer of plaster. I left the roof off in order to detail the inside of mosque and roof individually.

Also for added strength, I inserted several half a toothpick pieces into the jointing walls when I glued them.

I also drew the crack lines, stones, bricks in initially before applying the plaster.

When dry, sand lightly to avoid breaking off the thin layer of plaster.

Then redetail all lines, bricks, stones and details as needed prior to first paint application.

Thanks for asking!

JGphins

Lagumiles
Joined: December 30, 2003
KitMaker: 156 posts
Armorama: 135 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2018 - 01:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Moreno & Cheyenne , thanks for stopping by. The foam pieces for the base and walls were first glued together with Elmer’s white glue. Then I applied a thin layer of plaster. I left the roof off in order to detail the inside of mosque and roof individually.

Also for added strength, I inserted several half a toothpick pieces into the jointing walls when I glued them.

I also drew the crack lines, stones, bricks in initially before applying the plaster.

When dry, sand lightly to avoid breaking off the thin layer of plaster.

Then redetail all lines, bricks, stones and details as needed prior to first paint application.

Thanks for asking!

JGphins




Thanks replying me
Moreno