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Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M109 Query ...
pbennett
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United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2007
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Posted: Monday, April 22, 2019 - 10:52 AM UTC
Although I can't find any reference images to confirm this, I understand that the IDF used the early M109 (short barrelled version) in 1973. If this is correct, would either of Revell's 1/72-scale kits (refs. 03265 or 03305) be suitable for a simple conversion?
junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Monday, April 22, 2019 - 11:45 AM UTC
Looks like an early short barrel and bore evacuator, but muzzle brake is different.




Jim
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Monday, April 22, 2019 - 05:57 PM UTC
The original muzzle brake can be seen as well, in earlier pics. Maybe some M109's from the first batch were used in 1973... :












H.P.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Monday, April 22, 2019 - 07:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Although I can't find any reference images to confirm this, I understand that the IDF used the early M109 (short barrelled version) in 1973.



The IDF ordered 24 M109s from the first production series equipped with the M126 (caliber 23) gun in '69, received them in '70. All but one participated in the Yom Kippur War. At the beginning both units equipped with M109s fought against the Syrians on the Golan Heights; at later stages one of them was transferred to the Egyptian front in the Sinai Peninsula.

Another batch of 36 arrived right after the war, possibly also from the first production series.
GTDeath13
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
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Posted: Monday, April 22, 2019 - 09:07 PM UTC
Some more photos:













Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 - 02:10 AM UTC
3 more (undated...) :







+ 1 (1971) :



H.P.
pbennett
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 - 08:48 AM UTC
Excellent! That's certainly on my list of projects ... along with lots of others.
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 - 10:19 AM UTC
Does anyone know why the Fume/Bore evacuator is shaped like that (short & fat)rather than the long & lean configuration usually seen on tanks? Is it due to relatively short barrel?

Mal
mertox
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Mississippi, United States
Joined: April 15, 2019
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 - 10:42 AM UTC
They used the long barrel version also. Check out the Doher and the Rochev. http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3305.html
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 - 12:07 PM UTC
Hi Bo
You mean the 39 calibre 155mm barrel? Yes that has the long & lean Fume/Bore evacuator, and does suggest that the configuration may be due to barrel length.
Do any of our Red Leg (Arty) members have a definitive answer?

Thanks
Mal
Raccoon139
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Slovakia
Joined: October 22, 2020
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 09:49 PM UTC
Hi guys, let me ask....AFV club has now released 2 kits, short-barreled M109, US and Bundeswehr version, both have different muzzle breaks in comparison with the early IDF one. I bought a MR Models short barrel som time ago, just found out it is without any muzzle break at all.

So with intent to build an early IDF one, can anybody tell me where did IDF get theirs from? What type of muzzle break is that, if IDF custom made or something made elsewhere, imported with the guns from a different nation..etc....

And maybe a list of changes from a basic/standard US made early vietnam M109.

thank you for any help
18Bravo
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 03:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone know why the Fume/Bore evacuator is shaped like that (short & fat)rather than the long & lean configuration usually seen on tanks? Is it due to relatively short barrel?

Mal



I believe the longer bore evacuators are more efficient, in that they use large ball bearings to seal the vents as the projo travels down the tube. However, the shorter bore evacuator still works by ejecting the pressurized gasses forward.
I've actually seen the trip seven bore cleared by using the swab, pulling it out quickly pulls the gases out the rear. Not optimal, but allows the no. 2 man to check for bore clear before firing subsequent shots. Works okay since they're not in an enclosed space.
stikpusher
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Arizona, United States
Joined: June 16, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 01:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi guys, let me ask....AFV club has now released 2 kits, short-barreled M109, US and Bundeswehr version, both have different muzzle breaks in comparison with the early IDF one. I bought a MR Models short barrel som time ago, just found out it is without any muzzle break at all.

So with intent to build an early IDF one, can anybody tell me where did IDF get theirs from? What type of muzzle break is that, if IDF custom made or something made elsewhere, imported with the guns from a different nation..etc....

And maybe a list of changes from a basic/standard US made early vietnam M109.

thank you for any help



It almost looks like the IDF cut off the forward/outer baffle of the double baffle muzzle brake.
hazzardm
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 13, 2010
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Posted: Monday, November 09, 2020 - 01:54 AM UTC
Looks like the same brake as fitted to the Soltam M68 towed howitzer or L33 Roem...

after all they are 155 mm guns

MJH