login   |    register
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
vallejo acrylic polyurethane primer advice re
GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 12:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Rustoleum "Camouflage" colors. Great primer, goes on well straight from the can.

G




Thanks for the tip. I'll give that one a try the next time I need some. Just started a fresh can.



southpier
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 316 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 12:37 AM UTC
Q: can the badger primers (grey & white) be mixed to get a lighter grey primer, or will that affect the paint in other ways?

the dark is too for some of my intended top colors, but on white styrene I can see coverage better with the grey.

thanks
Vicious
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 10:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Q: can the badger primers (grey & white) be mixed to get a lighter grey primer, or will that affect the paint in other ways?

the dark is too for some of my intended top colors, but on white styrene I can see coverage better with the grey.

thanks



yes you can mix them without any problem
southpier
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 316 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 10:32 AM UTC
thanks. I really like working with them.
GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2019 - 02:18 PM UTC
Here is the dozer blade from the Takom M9 Armored Combat Earthmover (ACE).

This is before priming:


And this is after a couple thin coats of Vallejo gloss black primer:


Later this week I will give it along with two hydraulic rams a coat of Vallejo Steel. After that it will be coated with hairspray then the top coat, Tamiya NATO Green.

After an hour the primer only slightly tacky to the touch.



southpier
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 316 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2019 - 11:27 PM UTC
in the "before" picture, the blade looks green & grey, or is that lighting making it appear that way?


and - two part question I guess - is the "glossy" primer really an undercoat for your top? I was always under the impression a factory primer was "dead flat" on the shine scale.
GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 01:19 AM UTC
Part of it is less than professional quality lighting and part of it is I painted the sides of the blade and then had an "Oh crap!" moment realizing that I need to paint the sides Steel as well. The front of the blade may have gotten a very light dusting of Rustoleum primer; but most of it wiped off. The styrene itself was that shade of gray.

From what I've read here and a couple other places, a metallic coat looks it's best when painted onto a glossy surface. I'm not sure why that is; but I figured "When in Rome!" It will probably be Saturday before I can put the steel base coat on. Sunday I can do the hairspray then the topcoat.

Incidentally, I checked the blade this morning and it was totally dry and a nice, glossy finish so we'll see happens when the steel coat is applied.

southpier
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 316 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 01:32 AM UTC
thanks; following along.
GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 01:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

thanks; following along.




Sorry...not trying to hijack your topic.



southpier
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 316 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 01:42 AM UTC
it's all "paint" related.
GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 01:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

it's all "paint" related.



I'm still a newb at the hairspray chipping method. The first time I did it was on the MAN 5T mil GL that I did for the Logistic World campaign. I liked how it turned out so I thought I'd give it a try with a metallic base coat. Worst case I'll just paint over it all with NATO green and call it good!



Owengate
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: June 03, 2019
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 06:21 AM UTC
Thanks for the info, fellas! Definitely learning a lot from here.
GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 06:36 AM UTC
A lot of what you'll see here is opinion and your results may vary. You've just got to find the method that works for you and gives you the results you're looking for.

Also, YouTube is your friend!



Vicious
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 10:53 AM UTC
the metal effect tends to bring out imperfections, especially for certain aircraft, the work before painting with metal is far more important than the effect itself, and for this reason the gloss is the perfect substrate for this type of painting, and the black is the best color to make the final effect stand out, this does not mean that you cannot use a gray, matt or satin surface, but for the best result black gloss is what you need....

but it's also up to you to decide if it's worth it, in the sense a plane kept in flight conditions, maybe in a hangar has a certain finish, a caterpillar exposed to the elements, dust etc ... maybe a normal primer is enough, even the product you use has its peculiarities, Alcad II needs a certain primer rather than AK extreme metal or Agama metal paste rather than Metal pigments ... the variants are endless!



southpier
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 316 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 12:58 PM UTC
ok; my lip is starting to quiver.

I was under the impression Primer was the first coat of finish applied to a bare material.

after then, and only then, not before then, or even simultaneously with then, any-substrate-to-get-the-finish-you-want (such as the aforementioned gloss black) goes on.


but the intent of the Primer - remember the Primer? - is to offer a bonding surface with the base material and to unify the colors & textures if different materials were used.


also, I have often marveled at the magic called "radio". you turn a button and music comes out. how the heck did they do that?
Vicious
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 01:28 PM UTC
remember that it is a model that for me is a form of art , we try to copy the reality but you can't always do what really happens in reality, a tank is metal covered by the primer that protects from rust and a substrate suitable for painting ,we can do this on plastic, Plastic/ primer / paint, but in the case of a metallic finish you can't, you can't (except with the bare-metal-foil but is another story) cover the plastic with metal, so you have to find a system to deceive the eye and make it believe it is real metal and it is understood that with a black gloss primer the effect comes much better than with the traditional primer, however as mentioned before this technique is used much more in the airplanes that on AFV and other and certain products work well with both gloss and matt, others need gloss because they are designed specifically to be used with that ... we reproduce reality we don't copy it

go and see how much work is done by those who build aircraft in Bare Metal before and after painting, and you will be amazed by the work behind it, preparation of the plastic, primer, polishing primer, paint, buff the paint ..... especially with the Alcad II paints


GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2019 - 02:20 PM UTC
I went ahead and put a coat of Vallejo Model Air Steel on the dozer blade that I gloss primered on Sunday. I think it turned out OK.



Remember it is going to be coated next in hairspray then in Tamiya XF-67 NATO Green.


GulfWarrior
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 02:39 PM UTC
I think I might give the blade another coat of NATO Green and try again. I think I took a little too much off...



The green came off waaaaay too easy.