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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Mission Models paints clotting?
CZACZAJA
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Volyn, Ukraine / Україна
Joined: August 13, 2019
KitMaker: 11 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 04:33 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

Just had a go with the MM paints as I have hears only good things about them.

I have shot the MM red primer mixed with the MM dedicated thinner at the 10:4 ratio @ 20psi with a 0.2mm needle and the airbrush started clogging pretty quickly which is really uncommon with those paints.

When I disassembled it for cleaning I notices the paint was clotting all over my needle which caused the airbrush to clog.

Anybody can help me with this?
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 09:51 AM UTC
the only time that I had problems with MMP was because I bought the additive and it was full of gelatinous grains, after contacting MM he explained to me that it was probably exposed to very low temperatures and frozen (I had taken it from Hobby Easy).

But in your case, if stick only to the needle I have a doubt, what do you use to clean the AB? ... or what did you use last before the MMP? ... maybe the paint made a chemical reaction with something present on the needle, did you use alcohol or Celluluse / laquer thinner? ... did you use the recommended ratios and psi? ... after the additive problem I didn't have any problems with MMP go down It is a pleasure but I have never used their primers
ctkwok
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Alabama, United States
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 09:58 AM UTC
I also had the same issue and for me it was lacquer thinners. I love using lacquer to flush paint out but discovered that MMP appeared to dissolve but quicky gunk up in the AB. I have yet to confirm Windex works better but it at least doesn't gunk up like lacquer.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 10:22 AM UTC
i always use laquer to clean my AB ,but before i flush with water,then UMP AB cleaner, then laquer and finally a good flush with few drop of UMP again to remove any residue and before putting away the AB a light coat of badger needle juice on the needle, many acrylics make bad reactions with residues of laquer thinner or similar .
errains
#045
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South Carolina, United States
Joined: September 23, 2005
KitMaker: 362 posts
Armorama: 350 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 10:39 AM UTC
I've been working with MMP for almost a year. Here are a couple of takeaways from my perspective...

a) I never really got the primer to behave that way I would like. However I got it to work better with higher thinner ratios at about the same suggested PSI. I get tip dry with the primer all the time which is why I'm not digging MMP Primer at the moment...But I'm still playing around with them in the hopes of cracking the code.

b) DO NOT PUT ANY LACQUER or ENAMEL Thinners near MMP products!! As stated earlier they react badly with MMP Products. Use only their thinner and water to clean your AB afterward. If you want to save your thinner use Hot water and a touch of dish detergent through the AB, best to do that right after use.

Beside the issues noted above the paint line works great with excellent results. But just like using any new paint system experimenting is key to find the ratios of thinner to paint and PSI that works best for you. Are MMP paints better then say Tamiya thinned with lacquer? I would say not. But the trade off with that MMP is much more user and environmentally friendlier to use. So if that is important then MMP is the way to go.

Lastly this is the best article testing and using MMP Products that I have found so far...definitely give it a read.

HTH
| |)
ctkwok
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Alabama, United States
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 11:55 AM UTC
Thanks for confirming my observation wrt to lacquers. I am cheap so I always wanted some hardware store solvents to wipe the AB clean, so I resisted using water.

Anyhoo, MMP is better than Tamiya in its chipping properties. In fact that's the only reason why I switched. Its paint film chips very well with hairspray, and you can even "sand off" the top layer by rubbing with water.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 04:46 PM UTC
Yep for me MMP are the best water based acrylics paints on the market,in quality,property and package,after compare them to other types like enamel,lacquers or acrylics like Tamiya or gunze isnít easy because they are to different with different property etc...

I donít know for the MMP line of Primers because I never test them,I use badger,Tamiya in can or Mr Surfacer and I donít like to change when I feel good with something
BravoTwoZero
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California, United States
Joined: June 11, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 370 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 05:12 PM UTC
I had the same experience with the Black Mission Models primer. I mixed in their thinner as described in their Youtube video. I used it first on my Tamiya Spray Work HG 01 F 0.2mm airbrush at 15 Psi. It sprayed nice for a few seconds then it clogged. I thought I didn't clean that airbrush when I last used it, so I transferred the primer on to a second airbrush. This time the Tamiya Spray Work HG-SF 131 with a 0.2mm nozzle. It behaved the same way. It started out fine and then clogged. It was bubbling out in the reservoir. I switched to a 3rd airbrush. This time, the Tamiya Spray Work HG-WT with a 0.5mm nozzle. It still clogged. I was very frustrated. Since this was 0.5mm nozzle, I used up more of the primer. I kept mixing up a fresh batch. But, it still clogged every batch I sprayed. I continued spraying the primer with the 0.5mm nozzle because it sprayed out more and covered enough of an area before it clogs. I don't understand why this happened. I've used Mission Models primer before and was happy with the results. Now, I'd think twice before using it again. I may end up using Stylinrez primer. I've had great results with this one using the 0.5mm nozzle that they prescribed.

Here are the airbrushes I used with the Mission Model primers. All three clogged.
zontar
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Hawaii, United States
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,557 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 05:57 PM UTC
I've had the same clogging experience with MMP German Red Oxide Primer. Sprayed well for a while, then completely gummed up the needle channel on the AB. (I don't recall which AB it was, but either an Iwata Revoluction CR .5mm nozzle, or Iwata Eclipse .35mm, at 15 psi). I also had their Red Oxide paint, so I finished with that. I don't recall having problems with any of their paints and I've not used any other of their primers.

My only other complaint would be the viscosity of their thinner. I find it impossible to get drops of it as it just runs out everywhere as I tip up the bottle. Annoying given the precision of the ratios they advise.

Happy Modeling,
Zon
ctkwok
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Alabama, United States
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 06:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text



My only other complaint would be the viscosity of their thinner. I find it impossible to get drops of it as it just runs out everywhere as I tip up the bottle. Annoying given the precision of the ratios they advise.

Happy Modeling,
Zon



I put their thinners in bottles with syringes, like those for touch n flow. I also premix small batches in old Tamiya bottles.
CZACZAJA
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Volyn, Ukraine / Україна
Joined: August 13, 2019
KitMaker: 11 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 08:34 PM UTC
Much appreciate the great feedback guys!

I use the Tamiya acrylic thinner to clean the airbrush and I always clean it thoroughly after each spray. It hasn't been used a week before shooting the MM red oxide primer so there was no possibility of any reaction whatsoever.

I let the primer dry and then sprayed the Dunkelgelb @ 15psi mixed in the ratio of 10:4:2 of Paint:Thinner:Poly and it sprayed beautifully for half an hour without a single clog. Just need to perfect the pressure.

@Cody I was wondering if its possible to pre-mix the paints as I have a couple of 17ml empty MIG bottles and always wanted to try that.
d6mst0
#453
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2019 - 03:30 AM UTC
I haven't used their primer yet, but I have learned to use a primer before using MMP paint, otherwise the paint will wear off while handling the model.

Mark
BravoTwoZero
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California, United States
Joined: June 11, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 370 posts
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2019 - 03:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



My only other complaint would be the viscosity of their thinner. I find it impossible to get drops of it as it just runs out everywhere as I tip up the bottle. Annoying given the precision of the ratios they advise.

Happy Modeling,
Zon



I put their thinners in bottles with syringes, like those for touch n flow. I also premix small batches in old Tamiya bottles.



I forgot to mention this. I also experienced the thinner running out instead of being administered in drops like in their Youtube video. Thinner got wasted and ended up pooling on my workbench. I used a pipette to be able to control the drops.
ctkwok
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Alabama, United States
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2019 - 04:15 AM UTC
Not the easiest site to do images... This is what I do with pouring thinner into syringe bottles I got from Dollar shops, and premix paints. Those paint bottles have ball bearing inside. Supposedly premixing paint will shorten the life of the paint, I'm not sure what that actually means but I'm mixing small batches and not full bottles.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2019 - 11:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Supposedly premixing paint will shorten the life of the paint, I'm not sure what that actually means but I'm mixing small batches and not full bottles.



In theory MMPs paint should last indefinitely as long as they are not mixed with their thinner and Poly, the thinner should be an activator such as two-component adhesives, and also in theory (only time will tell if it is true) a bottle of paint could be on your shelf forever without losing its own property or dry, which instead with other manufacturers is impossible, I think it happened to anyone to open a color that is not used for some time and find out is good only for the garbage, with a premix the chemical reaction is triggered then the paint over time will begin to lose its properties,how long take to be unusable I do not know, weeks, months or years? ...

For the thinner I use the dropper bottles like Vallejo,more controllable.
ctkwok
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Alabama, United States
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2019 - 11:58 AM UTC
Well I know what they want to mean but I don't believe there is a huge difference. Also they're saying "shorten" but it doesn't mean if you leave it there it won't ever dry up on its own. I'd be really curious to see whether MMP lasts longer than competition. I have these Ammo bottles that dried half way, or have the opening clogged by dried paint.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2019 - 12:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well I know what they want to mean but I don't believe there is a huge difference. Also they're saying "shorten" but it doesn't mean if you leave it there it won't ever dry up on its own. I'd be really curious to see whether MMP lasts longer than competition. I have these Ammo bottles that dried half way, or have the opening clogged by dried paint.




The only thing is to do tests, I honestly haven't found the need at the moment, I have a bottle of a color that I made myself mixing 3 different colors but i did not add poly or thinner,i add them only before use them,what I find for sure is that they settle/separate much less than other brands, yes they tend a little bit like all paints with time but they still remain creamy they don't create that mud on the bottom like the Vallejo that often is nearly impossible to remix like concrete or slowly turn in to jelly