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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Shermans on the way to Arnhem
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 20, 2020 - 09:28 AM UTC
well I dug out an Asuka M4a2 (kit # AS-002). I was thinking Marine tank in the south Pacific when I bought it. Then I thought about a Polish tank, and now a British tank! Kit appears to be designed off a Marine tank from the start. Did the Brits make changes to the M4a2 like they did everything else? I talking tool mounting, phone box, and added armor.
gary
m4sherman
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Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, August 20, 2020 - 10:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

well I dug out an Asuka M4a2 (kit # AS-002). I was thinking Marine tank in the south Pacific when I bought it. Then I thought about a Polish tank, and now a British tank! Kit appears to be designed off a Marine tank from the start. Did the Brits make changes to the M4a2 like they did everything else? I talking tool mounting, phone box, and added armor.
gary


Nice kit. When you get to the radiators don't glue them together to the center piece, glue them to the outer pieces. Other wise the outer pieces won't line up with the hull sides properly.

To make the model a British M4A2, Sherman III, in Normandy, just add the box to the turret and the fire ex bottles, more or less what your M4A4, Sherman V's, would have. Tool layout stayed stock. The wonderful thing about the British Shermans is there were tanks used as built, serving next to tanks with all the upgrades.

Don't forget the Canadians. I found a nice picture showing a very early M4A2 still fitted with M3 boogies in Normandy.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 20, 2020 - 02:02 PM UTC

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well I dug out an Asuka M4a2 (kit # AS-002). I was thinking Marine tank in the south Pacific when I bought it. Then I thought about a Polish tank, and now a British tank! Kit appears to be designed off a Marine tank from the start. Did the Brits make changes to the M4a2 like they did everything else? I talking tool mounting, phone box, and added armor.
gary


Nice kit. When you get to the radiators don't glue them together to the center piece, glue them to the outer pieces. Other wise the outer pieces won't line up with the hull sides properly.

To make the model a British M4A2, Sherman III, in Normandy, just add the box to the turret and the fire ex bottles, more or less what your M4A4, Sherman V's, would have. Tool layout stayed stock. The wonderful thing about the British Shermans is there were tanks used as built, serving next to tanks with all the upgrades.

Don't forget the Canadians. I found a nice picture showing a very early M4A2 still fitted with M3 boogies in Normandy.



I can't tell from Ryan's book (so far) if there was Canadian armor as well as Polish and French with Horrocks XXX Corp. I seem to have found hints here and there of some SAS units. Becoming a learning process.
gary
m4sherman
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Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, August 20, 2020 - 03:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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well I dug out an Asuka M4a2 (kit # AS-002). I was thinking Marine tank in the south Pacific when I bought it. Then I thought about a Polish tank, and now a British tank! Kit appears to be designed off a Marine tank from the start. Did the Brits make changes to the M4a2 like they did everything else? I talking tool mounting, phone box, and added armor.
gary


Nice kit. When you get to the radiators don't glue them together to the center piece, glue them to the outer pieces. Other wise the outer pieces won't line up with the hull sides properly.

To make the model a British M4A2, Sherman III, in Normandy, just add the box to the turret and the fire ex bottles, more or less what your M4A4, Sherman V's, would have. Tool layout stayed stock. The wonderful thing about the British Shermans is there were tanks used as built, serving next to tanks with all the upgrades.

Don't forget the Canadians. I found a nice picture showing a very early M4A2 still fitted with M3 boogies in Normandy.



I can't tell from Ryan's book (so far) if there was Canadian armor as well as Polish and French with Horrocks XXX Corp. I seem to have found hints here and there of some SAS units. Becoming a learning process.
gary



I think all the Canadian units were in their own army, so my error there, none would be with XXX Corps. The 8th Armored Brigade had Sherman III's, and fought along the corridor.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2020 - 12:51 PM UTC

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well I dug out an Asuka M4a2 (kit # AS-002). I was thinking Marine tank in the south Pacific when I bought it. Then I thought about a Polish tank, and now a British tank! Kit appears to be designed off a Marine tank from the start. Did the Brits make changes to the M4a2 like they did everything else? I talking tool mounting, phone box, and added armor.
gary


Nice kit. When you get to the radiators don't glue them together to the center piece, glue them to the outer pieces. Other wise the outer pieces won't line up with the hull sides properly.

To make the model a British M4A2, Sherman III, in Normandy, just add the box to the turret and the fire ex bottles, more or less what your M4A4, Sherman V's, would have. Tool layout stayed stock. The wonderful thing about the British Shermans is there were tanks used as built, serving next to tanks with all the upgrades.

Don't forget the Canadians. I found a nice picture showing a very early M4A2 still fitted with M3 boogies in Normandy.



I can't tell from Ryan's book (so far) if there was Canadian armor as well as Polish and French with Horrocks XXX Corp. I seem to have found hints here and there of some SAS units. Becoming a learning process.
gary



I think all the Canadian units were in their own army, so my error there, none would be with XXX Corps. The 8th Armored Brigade had Sherman III's, and fought along the corridor.



I did find a map showing Canadian troops opposite the German 15th Army, but quite aways north of the road to Arnhem. I need to make a phone call to my daughter's husband (no Daddy claims in Son In-Law). He was deported out of Montreal, and was with Canadian armor for twelve years. He would know, as he follows Canadian troops down to the nuts and bolts.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2020 - 01:03 PM UTC
maybe I think too much, but I see quite a few photos of Cromwell tanks in the Arnhem area. Would the Tamiya fit the bill? The new Airfix seems invisible! Also, what are your thoughts about doing the new Crusader? It sure looks nice from what I've seen
gary
m4sherman
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Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2020 - 01:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

maybe I think too much, but I see quite a few photos of Cromwell tanks in the Arnhem area. Would the Tamiya fit the bill? The new Airfix seems invisible! Also, what are your thoughts about doing the new Crusader? It sure looks nice from what I've seen
gary



As far as I know the Tamiya Cromwell would work for Market Garden. It is a nice kit. I always thought AFV Club should do a Cromwell.

I am waiting for the new Border Models Crusader to hit the market and read a review or two. If the reviews are positive I'll get one for my desert war ideas. What they really should do is the Crusader I.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2020 - 07:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

maybe I think too much, but I see quite a few photos of Cromwell tanks in the Arnhem area. Would the Tamiya fit the bill? The new Airfix seems invisible! Also, what are your thoughts about doing the new Crusader? It sure looks nice from what I've seen
gary



As far as I know the Tamiya Cromwell would work for Market Garden. It is a nice kit. I always thought AFV Club should do a Cromwell.

I am waiting for the new Border Models Crusader to hit the market and read a review or two. If the reviews are positive I'll get one for my desert war ideas. What they really should do is the Crusader I.



100% agree, still the Tamiya kit holds up well against current issue kits
gary
brandydoguk
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England - North, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2020 - 11:24 PM UTC
I've read David Render's book on his experiences from D-day onwards. He served with 8 armoured brigade equipped with M4A2 sherman IIIs. When his tank was knocked out he was issued a M4A4 sherman V.

He was told diesel shermans were in short supply but he was furious, as a troop commander he felt the extra torque from the diesel engine was needed to allow him to manoeuver along with his troop. He told his commander what he thought of him and stormed off.

Also the M4A4 multibank engine had a tendency to stall as the engine could easily flood with petrol in the hands of a driver not used to handling it. This was the case with Render, his new tank stalled when out in the open, the crew abandoned it just before it was destroyed by shellfire.

His commanding officer was not best pleased as he thought Render had deliberately got the tank destroyed, which was certainly not the case.
m4sherman
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Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2020 - 08:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've read David Render's book on his experiences from D-day onwards. He served with 8 armoured brigade equipped with M4A2 sherman IIIs. When his tank was knocked out he was issued a M4A4 sherman V.

He was told diesel shermans were in short supply but he was furious, as a troop commander he felt the extra torque from the diesel engine was needed to allow him to manoeuver along with his troop. He told his commander what he thought of him and stormed off.

Also the M4A4 multibank engine had a tendency to stall as the engine could easily flood with petrol in the hands of a driver not used to handling it. This was the case with Render, his new tank stalled when out in the open, the crew abandoned it just before it was destroyed by shellfire.

His commanding officer was not best pleased as he thought Render had deliberately got the tank destroyed, which was certainly not the case.


Sounds like a good book to get. What is the title?
brandydoguk
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Joined: October 04, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2020 - 09:17 AM UTC
Hi Randall, the book title is Tank Action: An Armoured Troop Commander's War 1944-45.

It gives a good insight of the tactics used by the Sherwood Rangers and also how a 19 year old newly commissioned officer was flung in at the deep end so to speak.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2020 - 01:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've read David Render's book on his experiences from D-day onwards. He served with 8 armoured brigade equipped with M4A2 sherman IIIs. When his tank was knocked out he was issued a M4A4 sherman V.

He was told diesel shermans were in short supply but he was furious, as a troop commander he felt the extra torque from the diesel engine was needed to allow him to manoeuver along with his troop. He told his commander what he thought of him and stormed off.

Also the M4A4 multibank engine had a tendency to stall as the engine could easily flood with petrol in the hands of a driver not used to handling it. This was the case with Render, his new tank stalled when out in the open, the crew abandoned it just before it was destroyed by shellfire.

His commanding officer was not best pleased as he thought Render had deliberately got the tank destroyed, which was certainly not the case.



One Very small comment. The M4a2 used two Detroit (GMC back then) 6-71 engines coupled together. Suspect it was an engine length issue, as two 6-92's would have been a serious increase in torque. They still build those engines to this very day!
gary
m4sherman
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Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2020 - 02:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Randall, the book title is Tank Action: An Armoured Troop Commander's War 1944-45.

It gives a good insight of the tactics used by the Sherwood Rangers and also how a 19 year old newly commissioned officer was flung in at the deep end so to speak.



Thank you.

I wonder if the tank he was issued, Sherman V, was a re-manufactured tank. By 1944 the tank had been out of production for some time, and there were no spare engines available.
ALBOWIE
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Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2020 - 12:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

maybe I think too much, but I see quite a few photos of Cromwell tanks in the Arnhem area. Would the Tamiya fit the bill? The new Airfix seems invisible! Also, what are your thoughts about doing the new Crusader? It sure looks nice from what I've seen
gary



Cromwells equipped the Armoured Recce Regiment of the three British Armoured Divisions (Guards, 11 and 7) and one of the Armoured Divisions completely (excepting Fireflies) (7th)
The Welsh Gurds were in the Vanguard of GAD and were the Armoured Recce Regiment equipped with Cromwells (markings in tamiya Kit). They were the first british Armour into Nijmegen nearly three days before the Arnhem position fell. If the 82nd had taken their Primary objective as expected the outcome would have been substantially differnet as there was little between there and Arnhem (12 miles) until 7 hours before the Nijmegen Bridge was finally taken
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