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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Over-weathering w/ dust effects
UpperCanadian
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: June 28, 2020
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 133 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 09:11 AM UTC
How does one avoid over-weathering?

I've been trying to weather my current project, a Pz. IV G.

I'm using AK dust effects. It looks ok, but it has kind of 'sunk in' to the finish, making it hard to remove with thinner. Consequently, the effect is too strong in parts. I'm using satin. Should I instead be weathering over gloss?

BTW, I'm finding weathering hard to master. Harder than painting or even oils.
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,268 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 09:29 AM UTC
Weathering products will suck down into a non-gloss surface, which is what you have happening. Now, for some effects that isn't an issue if you are careful but as you can see it is hard to step back if you go too far. Now, I don't apply a gloss coat when applying a filter as I kind of want the finish to absorb it a little, but for pin-washes and stuff where you might need to do a little clean up a gloss coat will usually save you.
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,726 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 09:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

How does one avoid over-weathering?

I've been trying to weather my current project, a Pz. IV G.

I'm using AK dust effects. It looks ok, but it has kind of 'sunk in' to the finish, making it hard to remove with thinner. Consequently, the effect is too strong in parts. I'm using satin. Should I instead be weathering over gloss?

BTW, I'm finding weathering hard to master. Harder than painting or even oils.


A good rule of thumb is, stop just before you think you've done enough. If you're stressing out over wrecking your model, consider using artists watercolors instead of oils or enamels. Mix with water and flow enhancer (to avoid beading or "tide marks" as it dries). These paints have the same pigments as oils, but you have the option of rinsing them off if you are unhappy with the result. When you are satisfied with an effect, just overspray with a clear finish to seal that layer of color in place. You can work in stages, if you wish. An alternative to flow enhancer from the art supply store is a tiny drop of dish washing liquid.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,515 posts
Armorama: 1,107 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 09:52 AM UTC
i like oils and enamel product over Acrylics,weathering always change when dry,the color shift,it's better do in steps,it's easier add later than clean,anyway you should clean with the same thinner,slowly with a brush or a Q-tips
UpperCanadian
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: June 28, 2020
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 133 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 10:00 AM UTC
Ok, I will have to go with the gloss next time.

Gerald: thanks for the tip. I may try watercolours.
vettejack
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,268 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 - 11:51 PM UTC
Use your instinct. The very moment you feel there is too much of any one medium, stop, you probably overdid it. You might have a chance to correct it.

Starting out, always take baby steps in your process...barely anything leaving the brush like there is nothing there. Step back, take a look. If not satisfied, another baby step. And so on, and so on.

YouTube has Rinaldi actually doing such a thing as he weathers a KV-1 turret (as I recall).

In weathering, "less is more".
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 - 12:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

BTW, I'm finding weathering hard to master. Harder than painting or even oils.


Dan, it was about a month ago that I talked you through your first airbrushing session. Trust me, Padawan, you have yet to "master" anything. You may be having success, but it will be months before you reach competency and years before you achieve mastery. This hobby has a very long learning curve. That's what makes it so interesting. You never stop learning. It may take you years to develop and perfect your style of weathering with oils and branded weathering products. In fact, it will. 10 years from now you'll have it down solid, but by then you'll be trying new things. That's why this hobby never gets boring. If you're doing it right, you're never doing the exact same thing twice.
You can't put a weathering effect on a gloss surface because it will just scatter all over the place and you'll spend all your time with a rag and a brush full of thinner cleaning up all the weathering product that wound up on the other side of the tank and in your hand. It needs to be applied to a semi-flat or flat finish. (See my "Finishing and Weathering Sequence" post at the top of this forum for all questions answered). Always build up a weathering product, even mud, a little bit at a time, so YOU are in control of how much ends up on the tank. Keep a cup of thinner and a short stencil brush handy so that you can scrub away (most of) any mistakes. If you make a big OOPS, take the original base paint color you just screwed up and drybrush the area back to it's original condition. Recoat with clear flat and start over with the weathering product. All is not lost if you go FUBAR. Weathering products are wonderful things with a light and controlled touch and if you can keep them where you want them. I remember that after 2 hours of driving in the summer, our Bradleys were so covered with dust that you couldn't see the NATO 3 tone camo all the way up to the turret. Weather a model that way and judges will just frown at you!
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 - 01:55 PM UTC
I think that types of paint and even more styles and techniques of weathering are those questions that if you ask 100 people you will have 150 different answers ... everyone has their own procedure and preference .... for me semi-gloss is ok and rather than using any acrylic weathering product I have a testicle cut without anesthesia...

I have tried some acrylic products and now they are relegated to use as a base and diorama, I find them difficult to control and once dry even more difficult to remove if not impossible
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 - 07:54 PM UTC
In real life there is no such thing as "over weathered".

You think you've over done a layer a dust when in real life the dust can be so thick any original color is lost and everything matches the dust.

But what is good for realism isn't necessarily good for plastic model building. However sometimes it is worth doing it all way as a contrast to the other more traditional finishes on the shelf.
BootsDMS
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 - 08:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In real life there is no such thing as "over weathered".

You think you've over done a layer a dust when in real life the dust can be so thick any original color is lost and everything matches the dust.

But what is good for realism isn't necessarily good for plastic model building. However sometimes it is worth doing it all way as a contrast to the other more traditional finishes on the shelf.



So very true!

Several years ago now I was able to witness my son's Chally 2 out on the training area (near where I live) after around 3 hours of so of driving around; any hint of black over green was long gone, vehicle registration plate, bridge plate, all covered under a thick layer of mud and dust - including the driver - my son.

In modelling terms it would/should be finished in dark earth and Tamiya Buff; there was some indication of the original colour scheme on the turret roof, which also showed a bright silver scuffed patch between the 2 hatches; I'm pretty sure that any model finished as such would be laughed off the display tables, but one day I'll model it, one day(!)

Brian
vettejack
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 - 11:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

In real life there is no such thing as "over weathered".

You think you've over done a layer a dust when in real life the dust can be so thick any original color is lost and everything matches the dust.

But what is good for realism isn't necessarily good for plastic model building. However sometimes it is worth doing it all way as a contrast to the other more traditional finishes on the shelf.



So very true!

Several years ago now I was able to witness my son's Chally 2 out on the training area (near where I live) after around 3 hours of so of driving around; any hint of black over green was long gone, vehicle registration plate, bridge plate, all covered under a thick layer of mud and dust - including the driver - my son.

In modelling terms it would/should be finished in dark earth and Tamiya Buff; there was some indication of the original colour scheme on the turret roof, which also showed a bright silver scuffed patch between the 2 hatches; I'm pretty sure that any model finished as such would be laughed off the display tables, but one day I'll model it, one day(!)

Brian



As an IPMS and AMPS judge, and 22 years of military experience, I bring that experience into my judging. You are correct in a way that if the model does not have that "Verlinden" look (as we once knew it back in the 80's-90's), it was usually down the consideration line in a contest. I never did that knowing for the most part that reality did not match the modeling table when it came to representing true weathering. I always gave the benefit of the doubt to the modeler, at times to my own demise, from other judges. I even suggested that judges get some face time with real vehicles. If not, then go to a construction site if unable to get access to a military installation. In the end...build for yourself first...contest last.