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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Panther A question
ivanhoe6
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 12:37 PM UTC
Thanks for stopping by!
Did all A models get Zimmerit or just most of them?
I just got Meng's Panther A kit and I really like the rolled steel texture AND my zim skills suck. OR, should I go the sticker/decal route?
BTW, the red plastic freaked me out when I cracked the box !
Thanks in advance !
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 03:00 PM UTC
I would recommend either Atak Zim or build without the zim. the other zims are not as nice and Mengs surface in rolled steel is good. I have the King tiger and I am not going to use the zim on it because of the surface texture..
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 03:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for stopping by!
Did all A models get Zimmerit or just most of them?
I just got Meng's Panther A kit and I really like the rolled steel texture AND my zim skills suck. OR, should I go the sticker/decal route?
BTW, the red plastic freaked me out when I cracked the box !
Thanks in advance !


The order to apply Zimmerit was issued in September, 1943, but the material wasn't shipped to all factories immediately. Some early Panther Ausf. A (with the letterbox machine gun port and the single exhaust pipes) were delivered without the coating in October, 1943.
Paska
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 04:07 PM UTC
A photo on page 62 of Jentz's; Panther Tank, the Quest for Combat Supremacy , shows an Ausf A without Zimmerit. This vehicle was built by Daimler-Benz on or about October 1st, 1943, a month after Ausf A production began, Zimmerit application was to have started in Sept. The Fahrgestell nummer or Chassis Number of this vehicle is 151951. Fgst.Nr. for Panther Ausf A built at Daimler-Benz ran between 151901 through 152575. This means there were 50 Panther Ausf As built at D-B by Oct.1st, when this vehicle, which was without Zimmerit, rolled off the assembly line. Zimmerit application did not start at D-B until November, thus the subsequent October production vehicles did not have it either. A similar delay situation could also have existed at MAN, MNH and Demag as well, I don't know without further research.
Bonaparte84
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 09:15 PM UTC
I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, though you have to keep in mind that Zimmerit was not only applied in factories, but also in the field. It is likely that most Panther As built without Zimmerit received it at some point, as this was deemed an important protective measure. Unless you want to build a factory fresh DB vehicle without Zimmerit, your best bet is to stick to an actual picture.
ivanhoe6
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Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 11:47 PM UTC
All good, sensible advice about my dilemma. Thanks guys !
That's what I love about Armorama. The members are so darned knowledgeable and willing share their tips and research.
Because of the first 50 Panthers being without zimmerit and the really nice rolled steel texture I THINK I'm going that route.
Thanks again !
Tom
Removed by original poster on 10/19/20 - 15:35:56 (GMT).
m4sherman
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Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 10:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, though you have to keep in mind that Zimmerit was not only applied in factories, but also in the field. It is likely that most Panther As built without Zimmerit received it at some point, as this was deemed an important protective measure. Unless you want to build a factory fresh DB vehicle without Zimmerit, your best bet is to stick to an actual picture.



Agreed, however there are a few pictures of A's with out zimmerit. Pages 50/51 Panther on the Battlefield has 2 pictures of an non-coated A.
WilliamHarry
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 11:59 AM UTC
I have read that all "As" were coated with Zimmerit. Whether in the factory or in the field, they were coated.
Paska
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 02:18 PM UTC
Bonaparte84
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 08:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, though you have to keep in mind that Zimmerit was not only applied in factories, but also in the field. It is likely that most Panther As built without Zimmerit received it at some point, as this was deemed an important protective measure. Unless you want to build a factory fresh DB vehicle without Zimmerit, your best bet is to stick to an actual picture.



Agreed, however there are a few pictures of A's with out zimmerit. Pages 50/51 Panther on the Battlefield has 2 pictures of an non-coated A.



This is the point where I need to tell my wife that I have to buy more books on the subject. It is utterly inconceivable that I would not have such an information...
ijozic
Joined: May 23, 2007
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 09:18 PM UTC
Meng's Panther A kit is the one with a ball mount (so a mid or late production standard) and all of those came with Zimmerit applied IIRC. Meng released some Zimmerit decals separately intended for that set, though I guess those should have been included with the kit.

From what I recall from a similar thread, the only A's without Zimmerit were some early production standard As which didn't have the ball mount for the front MG.

I have a Takom Early A somewhere (with interior, no ball mount MG) which didn't come with Zimmerit molded, so I guess I could make that one without buying an expansive Atak set for it.
iguanac
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Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro
Joined: September 06, 2007
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 09:56 PM UTC
You could solve your problem in a following way:
Make a Soviet Panther A used by Guards Lieutenant Sotnikovís tank company. They had 3 "A" Panthers with zimmerit coated hulls and no (or not much remaining) Zimmerit on their turrets. That way you could have histioricaly representative, photo evidenced Panther A revealing some of beautiful textured armor.
http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/10/09/soviet-panthers/
ivanhoe6
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Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 11:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Meng's Panther A kit is the one with a ball mount (so a mid or late production standard) and all of those came with Zimmerit applied IIRC. Meng released some Zimmerit decals separately intended for that set, though I guess those should have been included with the kit.

From what I recall from a similar thread, the only A's without Zimmerit were some early production standard As which didn't have the ball mount for the front MG.

I have a Takom Early A somewhere (with interior, no ball mount MG) which didn't come with Zimmerit molded, so I guess I could make that one without buying an expansive Atak set for it.



Yep, it's a Panther A Late kit. Now I'm back to the Zim situation. Anybody have experience with the Meng decal zim?

Marko, that was a great link to the Russian Panthers. That would really stand out at a show.

Paska, great photo ! Thanks for posting !
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 08:44 AM UTC
Assuming it's this kit:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/meng-model-ts-035-panther-ausf-a--1093512

It needs zimmerit. Fairly easy to make, just takes some planning:
https://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=278641&page=1
ivanhoe6
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 10:59 PM UTC
Marc thanks for the links !
The do it yourself technique looks easy enough. I would have to practice on a scrap hull though.
And the kit specific decal Zim might be the easiest way to go.
More things to think about...
Thanks again !
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 03:30 AM UTC
You're welcome,

Just take it step by step. For the MNH/ DB pattern:
- make the kit into subassemblies, leaving off any part that will get in the way of applying zimm
- apply putty with x-acto tool
- use a sponge to add texture to the putty
- use the rake to add the pattern