Armor/AFV
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M24 Chaffee Walkarounds
staff_Jim
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 03:51 AM UTC
Gunnie! Sacralidge!
Shep Paines dio inserts are what got me so hooked on the hobby when I was a kid. There is a web page that has reprinted one (most likely illegal).

http://www.pacifichistory.net/MODELEERFILE/DIORAMAFILE/B17DIO.HTML

Now for early 70's, that is a diorama! And in 1/48 scale too! This guy was so great. It's a shame he is no longer active in the hobby. I see his name listed as a speaker at conventions though.
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunnie! Sacralidge!
Shep Paines dio inserts are what got me so hooked on the hobby when I was a kid. There is a web page that has reprinted one (most likely illegal).

http://www.pacifichistory.net/MODELEERFILE/DIORAMAFILE/B17DIO.HTML

Now for early 70's, that is a diorama! And in 1/48 scale too! This guy was so great. It's a shame he is no longer active in the hobby. I see his name listed as a speaker at conventions though.



:-) :-) That warranted TWO big grins! Wanna hear more armor sacrilege? I have never even built a WW II German heavy AFV - and have only built ONE Sherman! (Ducking for cover)

I agree, it is a shame that Shep isn't actively modeling in this part of the hobby anymore. I met him at the last SCAHMS (Southern California Historical Miniatures Society) California Show he attended. I took my first gun truck (Babs) there. He actually judged the model, and remarked to a friend of mine who judged with him that it was the best armor model he had ever seen. That Gold Medal could not have glowed brighter for me.

When my buddy told me that, I must admit flying on Cloud Nine for a good year. A very gracious thing to say - and I know that man has probably seen ten thousand miniatures in his lifetime. I don't think I'd be more proud of any model I have on my shelf than I do that one. He is an interesting person to meet.

Gunnie
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 04:37 AM UTC
Lol..You handled it better than me. I would have contacted the Smithsonian immediately and demanded my model by enshrined! It would have gone something like this....

"...But you don't understant....my model....Shep Paine said it's the best....What? You don't know who he is??? What are your credentials!?!?! Let me talk to your supervisor!....Do you think hanging it next to the Spirit of St. Louis is out of the question??? "

Good thing it wasn't me.
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Lol..You handled it better than me. I would have contacted the Smithsonian immediately and demanded my model by enshrined! It would have gone something like this....

"...But you don't understant....my model....Shep Paine said it's the best....What? You don't know who he is??? What are your credentials!?!?! Let me talk to your supervisor!....Do you think hanging it next to the Spirit of St. Louis is out of the question??? "

Good thing it wasn't me.



I DID THIS :-) My wife slapped me around silly all the drive home from Los Angeles!!!

Gunnie :-)
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 05:19 AM UTC

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Humble thanks for the compliment Sir! :-) Seriously Bryan - if you look and aren't able to find a Chaffee (as these kits are near-legal tender in some parts) let me know. I'll venture down into the dark recesses of my model vault and get my spare kit off to you.

Gunnie



Gunnie, I don't know what to say. Your offer is sincerely appreciated. I'm going to do some searching to see what I can turn up. If I look hard enough perhaps I can find one.

It's stuff like this that keeps me coming back to this site and these forums.
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 05:23 AM UTC
Hey not a problem Bryan - what are BOP's (Brothers In Plastic) for anyways?

Gunnie
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 06:24 AM UTC
"BOP" and you say you build spaceships? That's Bird of Prey. I still have my K-7 Space Station from "Trouble with the Tribbles" with mini USS Enterprise kit.
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 06:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

"BOP" and you say you build spaceships? That's Bird of Prey. I still have my K-7 Space Station from "Trouble with the Tribbles" with mini USS Enterprise kit.



Intensely jealous here :-)

Those are like Sci-Fi modeling Holy Grails! Yeah, I love spaceships. I'm a Trek and Star War fan - and a Space:1999 nut too. I even got Macross and Starblazers stuff. I don't have anywhere near the Sci-Fi collection that I do in armor, sadly.

Gunnie
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 08:06 AM UTC
I have almost every Enterprise except the very first TOS lighted version. Most of the movie versions, including the ST: TMP "Smoothie". Will finish it someday. Even My Star Trek Millenium Falcon is the original lighted version, unbuilt in box still.
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 09:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have almost every Enterprise except the very first TOS lighted version. Most of the movie versions, including the ST: TMP "Smoothie". Will finish it someday. Even My Star Trek Millenium Falcon is the original lighted version, unbuilt in box still.



Oh my God! (really drooling here - STOP IT) you've got the Smoothie!?! Does it have the funky rainbow effect decals in your kit? Man - I'd love to find one of those - I didn't know what I had when I bought it the first time around...

Gunnie
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 10:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh my God! (really drooling here - STOP IT) you've got the Smoothie!?! Does it have the funky rainbow effect decals in your kit?

Yes, it's basically a refelctive sticker, I did get a set of the clear blue resin inserts from Federation Models for it. I only got as far as spray painting the unassembled sprues white before I stopped. I got the ST:TWOK one and it looked "better" (at the time with the paneling) so that is the one I finished.
staff_Jim
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 10:33 AM UTC
I must have had that one too, once upon a time, because I remember those rainbow nacel stickers. It was a rather smooth surface wasn't it.

I think I have some remnant scraps of that kit left.

Jim
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 11:02 AM UTC
Oh the Pain... (a la Doctor Zachary Smith)

Gunnie
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Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 07:59 PM UTC
Tin Can--any luck in securing the M-24? If and when you find this great kit, try to get Hunnicut's book on light tanks. It is a treasure house of information. The vehicle arrived rather late in the European war. It saw limited service. However, when compared to its predecessors, the M-3 and M-5 Stuart tanks, it was a Cadillac. In fact, I believe that's who made the vehicle. At any rate, when they were rushed to Korea, they were a disaster. The 75mm low recoil gun just did not have the range and penetrating power to go up against the standard Soviet T-34/85. Despite their failure in combat, they remained a staple of the cavalry reconnaissance force until the advent of the much loved M-41 Walker Bulldog. Never heard anyone complain about that baby. The M-41 eventually succumbes to the M-551 Sheridan. Let us know how you make out in your quest.
DJ
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Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:04 PM UTC
DJ - I built my M24 representative of the Summer of 1950 - just as hostilities broke out. I think it a stretch to seriously put a Chaffee up against a T34 and expect it to go toe-to-toe and win. A tall order for the crew and the vehicle. I wanted to show the Chaffee in its last (best) light before being matched against the Russian Heavy, and it's subsequent failure. The Squadron M24 Chaffee book (recently out of print) is another good reference to supplement R.P. Hunnicutt's book, and Concord's book on tanks in the Korean War is nice all-around for modelers seeking photo references.

Gunnie
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Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:09 PM UTC
Gunnie--may I add, sir, that you did a magnificent job on the vehicle. How did you construct the driver's windscreen? The addition of this to the vehicle truly enhances the appearance.
DJ :-)
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Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunnie--may I add, sir, that you did a magnificent job on the vehicle. How did you construct the driver's windscreen? The addition of this to the vehicle truly enhances the appearance.
DJ :-)



I took the photoetched Eduard part for the windshield face, and cut two new ones out of .010" foil. I also cut a little windshield wiper arm and blade out of a scrap brass photoetch fret, and made the motor from a bit of half-round styrene stock. I used a .005" sheet of clear styrene for the windshield and cut a strip of .010" foil to use as a housing to hold the glass and the front and rear plates of the windshield frame bent in a U-channel shape. After painting, I slid the glass in between the front and rear faces of the windshield frame and marked off an area to mask a wiper blade swath with Scotch Tape. I pulled the glass back out, hit it with a bit of DullCote from the airbrush, and slid it back into place after weathering the windshield frame to match the rest of the tank - it's way too fragile to attach until the very end of the model project. I then mounted the whole assembly on the little bracket provided in the Italeri kit - with an additional bracket made from .010" foil that closed off the open bottom of the windshield frame and completed the bracket attachment missing from the Italeri kit.

After a beer - this was an easy thing to do :-)

Gunnie
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Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:36 PM UTC
Gunnie--amazing feat. I downloaded your response and will try to replicate. The M-24 is now behind the Sheridan, M-8 HMC, Sherman Calliope in the order of construction. I noticed that you do not display figurines in your website photos on the vehicles. Do you use them?
DJ
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:29 AM UTC
DJ - Naw, I'm not a mini-man kinda guy. I do build them, my favorite I nicknamed "Sarge" - he's a standing Tamiya Figure from the M8 kit I believe, but I only use him to help me maintain a sense of scale when adding additional parts and gear to the model.

I really love the mechanical engineering of the vehicles, and build the model to try and represent the beauty that I see in it to its best advantage. Kinda like "gee what does a Chaffee look like?" I'd like one day for someone to point back at one of my miniatures and say - "that's what it looked like". I know, a little kooky, but that's what's foremost in my mind when building a model. It seems like American AFV's get lost in all the "rage" over German WW II stuff. I try to compensate for that with building US subjects.

The figure(s) just don't (yet) knock me over the same way drawing and trying to execute a scratchbuilt M56 Scorpion SPAT does. I really admire the modelers who do build the figures - as they go all out like I do for the vehicles - but admit it kinda spoils the illusion for me. Maybe because it's that I haven't encountered a really nice set of American GI's to put in my models for the time periods that I like to build in. I dunno...

Gunnie
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

DJ - Naw, I'm not a mini-man kinda guy. I do build them, my favorite I nicknamed "Sarge" - he's a standing Tamiya Figure from the M8 kit I believe, but I only use him to help me maintain a sense of scale when adding additional parts and gear to the model.

I really love the mechanical engineering of the vehicles, and build the model to try and represent the beauty that I see in it to its best advantage. Kinda like "gee what does a Chaffee look like?" I'd like one day for someone to point back at one of my miniatures and say - "that's what it looked like". I know, a little kooky, but that's what's foremost in my mind when building a model. It seems like American AFV's get lost in all the "rage" over German WW II stuff. I try to compensate for that with building US subjects.

The figure(s) just don't (yet) knock me over the same way drawing and trying to execute a scratchbuilt M56 Scorpion SPAT does. I really admire the modelers who do build the figures - as they go all out like I do for the vehicles - but admit it kinda spoils the illusion for me. Maybe because it's that I haven't encountered a really nice set of American GI's to put in my models for the time periods that I like to build in. I dunno...

Gunnie


Gunnie--I believe I speak for all of us when I say "that Day" has arrived. Thanks for your response.
DJ :-)
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:18 AM UTC

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At any rate, when they were rushed to Korea, they were a disaster. The 75mm low recoil gun just did not have the range and penetrating power to go up against the standard Soviet T-34/85. Despite their failure in combat, they remained a staple of the cavalry reconnaissance force until the advent of the much loved M-41 Walker Bulldog.



I don't get it. Why wasn't the M26 Pershing deployed against the Russian medium/heavy tanks?? Seems like a serious tactical error. Like sending 20 Chaffee's to take out 10 Panthers

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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:32 AM UTC
Jim---good question. The M-24s were in Japan. They were used there due to their weight. A larger tank like the M-26 would have ruined the fragile road system. Now when the North Koreans spread south in June of 1950, they have about 200 T-34/85 tanks and SU-76 systems going against the South Koreans. Task Force Smith deploys to Korea and has the stuffing kicked out of it. The 57mm recoiless rifles, 2.36 bazooka, and even the 105 HE does not stop the T-34s. So, as is often the case, we scramble to stop the onslaught. This is the wierd part. At Fort Knox, they drag M-26s designated as monuments off to the shop. They load a conglomeration of M4A3E8s and M26/47s on a train then fire them off to the West Coast. An armored guy name Dodson takes charge of the group. This so called battalion (I think it is the 702nd Tank Battalion) contains people he has never seen before to operate these vehicles. They get to SF and he gives everyone a pass until the ship leaves. Everyone comes back! Amazing, take it it from this Soldier. Once in country, the vehicles go into the Pusan perimeter where they do yeoman service. We ship the new 3.5 Rocket Launcher and 75mm Recoiless Rifles to Korea. They stop the North Korean use of tanks which I believe ends their utility for the North Koreans. We then use the tanks as fire support platforms for the remiander of the war. Hope this helps.
DJ
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:20 AM UTC
Oh yeah, I concur with DJ. I think the Chaffee was the expedient stop-gap to send into Korea early since they were already in Japan too. It seems, however, that some historians (must be modelers ) pan the Chaffee when it failed to halt or slow down the T34 and turned this into a serious deficiency of the M24. I think it unfair for the Chaffee - which was pointed out earlier in the thread - which was a considerable and potent improvement over the M3 and M5 Stuart Light Tanks to be reflected in that light when it failed against a heavy. It seems this mentality continued on through the BullDog and into the Sheridan's gun/missile launcher system to create a light, airborne-capable, tank to go toe-to-toe with a heavy and defeat it.

Gunnie
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:30 AM UTC
Gunnie--the failure of the Army to produce an adequate light tank is a tragedy. The Bulldog is a superb little street fighter. We used them in Vietnam very effectively. Real tough to get a clown with the coax, but a nice system. The Sheridan was a disaster. The gun is great but it screws the missile laucher up. Let's see what they produce for the Interim Force armored gun system.
DJ
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:44 AM UTC
Doesn't really matter what they produce. The first time it goes head-to-head with a tank and loses, it will be panned. Someone will try to employ that 105mm main gun version against older main battle tanks. It may get some, but one shot will take it out and the press will peg it as a failure. Too bad, we need a substantial medium force for the sprawling urban areas we will find our selves in.