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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Firefly Vc paint scheme
KMM
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Joined: February 15, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:27 AM UTC
I'm currently building the DML Firefly Vc. Unfortunately, I know a lot less about UK paint schemes than I do about German. The kit's instructions say to paint the tank olive drab, but most pictures I see of UK AFV's look much greener. I have a bottle of Polly Scale British Dark Green, but it looks a little too dark. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanx
pipesmoker
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Joined: January 31, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:12 AM UTC
Hello KMM
Welcome to the armorholics home. It's quiet tonight, but usually there are around six or so cruising the site. I pulled out my kit of the Firefly. I am just starting to build Allied armor myself. I assume you are going to do the Canadian paint scheme?
I seem to recall reading that later in the war, to standardize things, all armor was painted olive drab. OD tends to fade rapidly in the sun, so just about any paint manufacturers OD shade will do.
When Sabot sees this thread, I am sure he sill have more info.

This site is a great learning tool. I have picked up a lot of information in the last 3 weeks. All of the posters here are most willing to answer any questions. So enjoy and learn.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:21 AM UTC
I think the Brits used "bronze green". I also think my may have used the "Mickey Mouse" pattern. These were big circles of black on the dark green, sometimes the circles connected making MM shaped designs. Not sure when they started this pattern though.
KMM
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:23 PM UTC
The DML kit comes with decals for the Northhamptonshire Yeomonry tank that (possibly) killed Wittman. The weird thing is, the paint guide calls for painting it grey, yet on the box cover its definately a faded green. Guess I'll have to hit the hobby shop tommorow!!

Thanx guys.
Kencelot
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Joined: December 27, 2001
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:27 PM UTC
Remember one thing...all M4's were delivered to the Brits in OD green. If time and resources allowed they would repaint them, like Rob said bronze green was used. Here's a bit I found for you:

British Tank Colours
1940-42: bronze green from '40-'42 (Valentines?), while an earth brown was specified for British vehicles in '43. Soft vehicles would be OD for lend lease, khaki drab (with black camouflage) for British-made, and again some carry-over of the bronze green on early vehicles (carriers, etc.)
There were at least 4 colours in use between 1944-45 and they go
by a number of different names.

1. Khaki Green which had been phased out but some AFV that had not been repainted since 1943 might still be in this colour. It was similar to middle bronze green.

2. Khaki Drab the official colour as of 1944, it was similar to U.S. olive drab but a bit greener. (Humbrol 159)

3. U.S. Olive Drab, many lend lease A.F.V.'s were not repainted until they needed it.

4. Deep Bronze Green which the British went to late in the war (1945) and is much darker than U.S. Olive Drab. (Humbrol 75).

Experienced British crews usually covered up all but the rear deck circled - star on tanks with daubed mud to avoid them being used as aiming points by German gunners. Added to this is the tendency of any tank to get covered in mud and dust anyhow.

Also on note, the 17 pounder guns had their undersides painted white in a "cloud-like" pattern to break up it's noticable size difference from 75's & 76's. Germans tended to pick-off these first because they posed the greater threat.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:25 PM UTC
Most Fireflies were repainted from the standard US OD green because they were remanufactured with the 17 pounder once in GB. This is why Fireflies have more "British" paint schemes than the standard M4A4s, they only had a few British-specific items fitted to them whereas the Fireflies got pulled into depot-level facilities for uparming. They also wanted to camouflage the main gun like Ken said, there was only one per company.
KMM
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Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:09 AM UTC
Thanks for the info. I was wondering about the paint scheme on the barrel - I've noticed it on the Firefly mod I use for the Combat Mission computer game. I usually try to paint a vehicle to match the markings I'm going to appy, but sometimes I'll go with a different historical scheme I like better. Guess I'll hit the hobby store and decide. Thanx again.
generalzod
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 09:13 AM UTC
Does anybody know if Khaki drab is available in acrylic?
KMM
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 09:46 AM UTC
I looked in three different hobby shops this weekend and I sure couldn't find any. Poly-S and Testors acrylics come in a french kahki green, but I don't know how close that is. Poly-S also has a British dark green that's a few shades darker and greener than standard olive drab. Humbrol has a bronze-green color that was used on late war UK vehicles. I'm thinking this may just be a matter of finding a green that is "close enough."
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 10:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anybody know if Khaki drab is available in acrylic?



Yeah General Zod - Tamiya makes an acrylic Khaki Drab, at least I believe I remember seeing it in the store on Saturday morning...

Gunnie
Kencelot
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:10 AM UTC
KMM, if it "looks" close enough...go for it. You could drive yourself crazy trying to find the exact color for any particular model.
As far as the barrel on the Vc, about half way up the length, the underside was painted that cloud-like pattern with white. If looked at from a distance, the true length was obscured. Also, keep in mind that not ALL used this pattern.



Kencelot
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:20 AM UTC
Generalzod, yes as Gunnie said Tamiya makes it. # XF 51 also Humbrol's equivalant is HU 108.
Kencelot
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:29 AM UTC
KMM, if you're really trying to find the "bronze-green" look at Hmbrol's #75, Tamiya's XF13- J.A. Green, XF11-J.N. Green, or Gunzo Sangyo's H36. Ignor their color names, they should be real close to what you're looking for.

Hope this helps a bit more.
KMM
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:09 PM UTC
I went with an undercoat of British dark green, then a top coat of olive drab. I'll then dry brush it with more British dark green and Panzer light olive green (probably lightened with some white) to pick out the details. I like to dry-brush with a combination of colors that are both lighter and darker than the base coat - it give a lot of depth. After some spot-weathering with flat black, rust, and light grey, I'll muddy it up with good 'ol Tamiya flat earth - I like my tanks muddy and love that paint. It's looking good so far - but its going to take forever to assemble those individual track links!!!
BTW: I tried the cloud pattern under the barrel, but just couldn't get it to look right. Besides, the vehicle I'm modeling apparantly didn't have it.
Thanx for all the help, this is a really great forum.